Creating A Scifi Universe; A collaborative effort

[CaptainChewbacca]

Ok, we're nerds, dorks, and geeks of all kinds. We know what makes scifi good and what makes it bad. So, why not try and create our own universe?

Questions:

What is a good tech level?
How many alien races are there?
Is it a Trek-federation, or are there many human nations?
What is valuable?
How does FTL work?
Are mental powers for the taking?

I have some of my own ideas, but I'd like to hear what other people think is good.

[Thirdfain]

Human nations are best, because the best stories are those about mankind. Tales with human, fallible characters are best. If there's one thing B5 taught us when held up against the bland, poorly done Star Trek, it's that.

I personally prefer gritty tech level- slow ships, ugly, boxy, armed with missiles, lasers, and projectile weapons. FTL is not explained in detail- merely that it works. Only larger vessels have FTL drives, as it is energy intensive and bulky.

There are many human nations, seperated from one another by culture, religion, and all the things which seperate modern humans. Perhaps some cultures will be heavily genetically or technologically modified.

Psionics are stupid and unnecessary. Might as well call it magic.

[Pablo Sanchez]

What is a good tech level?

I agree with Thirdfain on this one. Tech should be very much function over form and a little bit ugly. No Trek smooth lines. Things might look and operate something like Earthforce ships in B5.

How many alien races are there?

One of two ideas:
1) Alien races exist on the fringes of human-explored space, but distance of difficulty of travel/communications make them mostly unknown quantities.
2) Mankind is just one of many different races in known space, and not really the most powerful.

Is it a Trek-federation, or are there many human nations?

Many human nations, I think. Perhaps one centralized Earth Government and a number of splinter colonial states.

What is valuable?

The same things as on Earth: rare elements, luxury goods. Gold, silver, gems, etc.

How does FTL work?

For scientific basis, leave it up in the air. For function, it should be fairly slow but still viable. Days of travel between inhabited systems. This would help to keep the political situation more or less fragmented.

Are mental powers for the taking?

Telepathy might be incorporated in a very distant fashion, implied but not directly stated. Mind-enhancement, as with Duneverse mentats or cyborging, would be good.

[HemlockGrey]

One thing I've always disliked about a lot of popular sci-fi, especially low-level sci-fi like Star Trek or B5, is that they treat a planet like we treat a city. It's all homogenous, everyone speaks the same language, geography is generally the same throughout, etc. Also, each planet is always controlled by a single power; no independent nations exist on the planet, the planet is never divided between various powers, etc.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Yeah, in a scifi I'm working on, human colonists arrived on an inhabited planet and settled in a frontier region. They made friends with the local nations and accidentally set off a world-war.

One thing I really hate is automatic understanding. I like alien races where you have to have someone study and learn their language for a few years.

I also never liked the interconnectedness of Trek. What was Bajor-Earth, like three days at warp6?

Why would gold be valuable in the future? I'm not even sure why its valuable now, except for the rarity.

[Gandalf]

Ok, we're nerds, dorks, and geeks of all kinds. We know what makes scifi good and what makes it bad. So, why not try and create our own universe?

Ok.

What is a good tech level?

Somewhat advanced enough to be able to impress a reader, but no somuch that it becomes the focus of the story.

How many alien races are there?

Just a few, and they're not all one stereotype like in Trek.

Is it a Trek-federation, or are there many human nations?

Just two or three human nations.

What is valuable?

Precious minerals. Non dehydrated astronaut food.

How does FTL work?

A series of artificial wormholes. Sleeper ships are sent to places to set them up.

Are mental powers for the taking?

Yes, but they're rare as they are now.

I have some of my own ideas, but I'd like to hear what other people think is good.

And now you have heard.

[Sea Skimmer]

Why would gold be valuable in the future? I'm not even sure why its valuable now, except for the rarity.

It has many industral uses as a conductor and reflector, and people think it looks nice.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I figured. So, there's a human civilization spread across maybe 50 star-systems made up of probably 20 or 30 nations. There's merchants, militaries, and plenty of spooky mind-powers.

Sounds good so far.

[Sea Skimmer]

Some thoughs on colonization.

It would take a very long time for a new colony to build up to the point that it could become independent of whatever nation or corporation paid the rather vast sum for it to be set up. What I'd expect is that at least with humans, there aren't very many independent colonies and that all of them are quite large. There simply wouldn't be any point to establishing new colonies with all the costs involved until existing where filled up.

Though there might be exceptions with resource extracting establishments with very small numbers of live personal. Not just minerals would be worth collecting, wood and other such things might be in high demand on heavily populated worlds but that would depend on how cheep space transport is. Tiny little colonies established by crazed fundamentalist groups might also exist.

Terraforming, if it's feasible in this universe, could also spawn some very small colonies. Though it's not a very realistic undertaking and reality probably isn't hurt any more by just having a fair number of already habitable worlds around. Having aliens already demands that some of these exist.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I agree. Depending on what year it is, you'd have earth and the solar system teeming with people, a "first generation" group of planets that are similarly developed and pretty heavily populated, a second generation that are just starting to become independent, and then "specialty" colonies that could be of varying age but are established for resources. Although, I like the idea of religious fundamentalist colonies or even lost colonies.

Maybe a few skirmishes between less-advanced natives and some colonists for color, and perhaps one of the "core" worlds had a native population thats now thoroughly acclimated to human culture.

[RedImperator]

Ok, we're nerds, dorks, and geeks of all kinds. We know what makes scifi good and what makes it bad. So, why not try and create our own universe?

Questions:

What is a good tech level?

Depends entirely on the kind of story you're trying to tell. The higher the tech level, the more alien a human society will appear. My own universe is generally on Star Trek's level, though with higher power levels (think pre-ICS low-end Star Wars estimates).

How many alien races are there?

Frankly, no alien races has its charms. Or there are aliens, but they're all either in the stone age or so far advanced they can't be bothered with humans. My universe does have aliens on the same tech level as humans, but that's because I needed rival powers in the galaxy, a decision I'm not entirely comfortable with, but I do have at least a half-assed explanation as to why such a wildly improbable event happened.

Is it a Trek-federation, or are there many human nations?

Both. There's a large human power centered on Earth, and there are independent human states out on the fringes of the galaxy. Parts of the major polity were once independent colonies that were later absorbed as travel times between systems shrank and outside threats began manifesting themselves.

What is valuable?

Mostly complicated, high tech manufactured goods, like computers, starships, medicines, hyperdrives, and the like. As technology advances and space travel becomes cheaper, it becomes profitable in some cases to ship raw materials between star systems, but for the most part it's cheaper for manufacturing centers to acquire them locally. Again, using my universe as an example, factories in the Sol system rely on minerals mined from asteroids, and, lately, deep bore mines on Mercury.

How does FTL work?

I assume you mean, "Is it like Star Trek warp or Star Wars hyperdrive or Wing Commander jump points", not how does the actual mechanism of FTL work. I like the jump point model myself because it allows for strategic choke points. In my universe, hyperspace and realspace are connected in such a way that gravity wells in realspace effect the topography of hyperspace. At certain points, usually at the fringes of star systems, the barrier between realspace and H-space is weak enough that a starship can force its way in. In theory, a sufficiently powerful hyperdrive could penetrate the barrier at any point outside the event horizon of a black hole, but the power requirements grow exponentially the further away you get from a node.

Hyperspace, by the way, is exceedingly hostile. The hyperdrive generates a protective field around a starship, preserving a "pocket" of 3 dimensional space which moves through 4-d space. If the pocket collapses, extremely unpleasant things happen to the ship and it's crew. Think of a 2-d being living happily in a 2-d universe, where his top always faces up and his bottom always faces down. THen suddenly he's yanked into 3-d space, and he can freely flip over. In 4-d space, there's nothing to prevent a 3-d object from spontaneously turning inside out.

Are mental powers for the taking?

Bah, psionics are done to death.

[Shroom Man 777]

Ok, we're nerds, dorks, and geeks of all kinds. We know what makes scifi good and what makes it bad. So, why not try and create our own universe?

Questions:

What is a good tech level?

B5-Star Trek-Halo level. Kilotons, triple digit megatons. But I don't want the ships and people to be pansy frail geeks with laser cumming dildos. They have guns. Their ships are like bricks (I have a growing fetish for bricks)! They're rough. They have turrets, combat knives, phased plasma rifles and all that!

How many alien races are there?

I like to have a lot. But don't make them one dimensional caricatures like ST. Make them realistic, with multiple cultures and whatnot. Such might be too hard to represent in a single story and might require some sort of textbook or something, but we should try our best not to portray our aliens by just one culture.

Is it a Trek-federation, or are there many human nations?

Both. The Earth-nation being the largest and a significant player in the interstellar game. Other human nations ranging from respectable power to small fry.

What is valuable?

Hi-tech stuff, rare hi-tech stuff, rare natural stuff, rare products which only one species can produce and is highly sought after by the other races...umm...like marshmallows!

How does FTL work?

I prefer the SW-ST style, but only for big-medium ships which cost a lot. There can be artificially created wormholes or natural jump-nodes for cheaper civilian ships. You have to pay a toll fee to go into the artificial wormholes which orbit around large cities. And these gateways regulate their traffic and switch destinations, like 1PM-3PM the wormhole will direct traffic to the Zigon-3 system, 5PM-10PM it sends you to YER MOM or something.

Are mental powers for the taking?

Make em rare.

I have some of my own ideas, but I'd like to hear what other people think is good.

Ok

Note that what I'm giving out right now is a general description of my preferances for sci-fi universes. My story SOTS follows the things I've mentioned above.

[Black Wolff]

Well personally I've always liked the idea of no aliens, as I have used in my stoies. I have different Terran "sub-species" that have been genetically engineered...like ones for desert planets, water worlds, high-gravity, low-gravity, like that.

Also I have diverse colonies, forgotten ones, rediscovered ones so that there are many people groups...like the "China" planet or the "French planet" or perhaps those planets have fragmented. I agree with others that cultures alien or other human should NOT be homogenous, in language or culture. Is it ever that way here on earth? No...not even in any nation can everybody agree to conform to exactly the same language or culture. There might be a few main alliances, but it is always nice for there to be several big governments for the story to play around in. It can be good to just stay in one "empire" but it can also be useful to have border to slip accross.

If it is sufficiently described I think telepathy can be useful. As in can it be used to scan or not? Does it transmit pictures or words or sounds or concepts? If you set down how it works it gets rid of much of the "magic" quality that some people diskike, IMHO.

On the nature of technology I prefer hard sci-fi with stuff that is plausible...with a few necessary things like FLT (in whatever form) thrown in where necessary for the story...i.e. a story is limited to any one solar system if all interstellar travel takes decades...or it has to be entirely focused on a character such as when Orson Scott Card expanded beyond Ender's game with Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide, and Children of the Mind.

As to what is valuable if anything is critical to FLT flight that could fill in for modern gold...like Trek games have used dilithium as a resource, or StarCraft uses Vespene gas and crystals...critical elements could be valuable...there could be a "crystal standard" currency.

For transit whatever works IMO, but I like the idea of there being freight ships that carry smaller ones...like the guild heigh-liners (sp?) in Dune that carried the smaller ships in their holds...a mix of this (as in B-5 where smaller ships had to use jump gates) and larger ships on their own (where B-5 big ships could generate their own hyperspace entrance/exit).

~Black Wolff

[SirNitram]

Ok, we're nerds, dorks, and geeks of all kinds. We know what makes scifi good and what makes it bad. So, why not try and create our own universe?

Questions:

What is a good tech level?

Depends on the feel you want. I've had fun with only slightly advanced societies(Fusion power, ion engines, no shields, no FTL, only slightly superior material science), with some 'emergent Superscience' thrown in(A device which can instantly rewrite your position on the XYZT coordinates of spacetime).

How many alien races are there?

Billions. Mankind will be thoroughly sick of mosquitos and everything vaguely mosquito like, even in the future.

Oh, intelligent ones? I prefer to have most primative, and with hints of an ancient period of far more advanced societies knocking around.

Is it a Trek-federation, or are there many human nations?

Humans don't work with humans well. They tend to schism.

What is valuable?

Entirely dependent on society, which in turn is entirely dependent on technology.

How does FTL work?

Emergent superscience. I like the entire of 'jump points' but you can jump everywhere if you were pumping enough juice.

Are mental powers for the taking?

Screw mental powers. Sufficiently advanced technology, build it right in. Then claim it's mental.

I have some of my own ideas, but I'd like to hear what other people think is good.

[Stofsk]

Ok, we're nerds, dorks, and geeks of all kinds. We know what makes scifi good and what makes it bad. So, why not try and create our own universe?

Good in theory.

What is a good tech level?

I'm not sure how to answer this question. I think the best level would be where the tech is at the very least consistent with itself, and has plausible effects. For instance, an anti-aging drug if available should cause social effects - there would be those who would take it, those who refuse (who knows why?), and those who would like to but can't. Also, what happens to mandatory retirement for those who are on an anti-agathic? You could be chronologically a 150 years old but still have the mental acuities of someone in his 30s. Should you be forcibly retired if the job has a mandatory age limit of, say, 60? What about age-old pensions? Do they still apply? If such a technology were to become available you have to think beyond their immediate implications and look at the effect holistically.

How many alien races are there?

Either very few WELL-DEVELOPED aliens, or none at all. Don't make the mistake of ST where every week is another arsehole alien with a funny nose or some other stupid latex disguise.

Even B5 had this problem, though they had the best alien race ever created for TV: the Vorlons. They also had the Narn, which also had their own personality and culture, and at least 2 different religions (!). I didn't like the Centauri or Minbari much, they seemed to be one-trick ponies (the Centauri seemed like Romans in Space, while the Minbari... well, they're just evil).

I think it would be more interesting to have disparate human societies, one or two alien societies with their own agendas and so on, and perhaps one ultrapowerful or stone-age level race who either trumps everyone (as in the former) or can't compete at all (the latter).

Also, I hate the whole aliens can breed with humans thing. That said, however, I think there would be adventurous individuals in any species who would still fool around with others, even if the purpose wasn't to crossbreed.

Is it a Trek-federation, or are there many human nations?

Both.

Seriously, why assume everything would be nicely homogenised in the future? Think of the Commonwealth: you have the big Capital world analagous to Britain (Earth, in this case), you have former colony worlds who have a degree of independence analagous to Australia and New Zealand (who in this case would be fairly distant from Earth), you have antagonistic worlds lead by arseholes analagous to Robert Mugabe and Zimbabwe (who in this case would also be fairly distant from Earth, but they might be bullies in the area/sector/whatever).

What is valuable?

On the frontier outposts: Anything, from mail or news broadcasts (I mean Interstellar news, as opposed to local news), to water and food. The mundane would be pretty important, while the flashy gizmos might be seen as frivolous or unnecessary.

On established colonies, or 'speciality' colonies like farm worlds: Hard to say, I'd imagine they would be striving for self-sufficiency. I think they would be more into export as well, in the case of farm worlds, or industrial worlds.

On Homeworlds, or Capital worlds: Basically everything.

How does FTL work?

RedImperator made the point that certain 'types' of FTL have greater opportunity for strategic chokepoints. The FTL used in "The Mote in God's Eye" fits this criteria. Essentially it works by connecting stars to each other, and only certain stars are connected (these stars tend to support life-like planets), leaving the worthless stars alone, as well as the emptiness between stars largely ignored.

Also think of the implications of FTL when you consider speed:

A fast FTL means that response time is quick, presumably real-time advice or transmissions can be observed, and that colony worlds will defer to capital or Homeworlds more often than not. Rebellion would be unlikely, as the marines can be sent in at a moment's notice. Wars are probably short, sharp and brutal (when aren't they brutal?), while disaster relief can get there quick and help out. Fast or super-fast FTL implies a strong central authority who can respond quicker and might not be tolerant of insurrection.

A slow FTL means that response time will be slow, or perhaps even non-existent. Transmissions could take weeks, months or years. Colony worlds by necessity will need to be self-sufficient, and will likely not care what Homeworld thinks of such and such policy, just so long as the next shipment of grain or whatever gets there. Rebellion would be likely if Homeworld pushes too hard on authority, as the marines and carriers/battleships/whatever can't arrive for awhile. Battles will still be short, sharp and brutal, but wars will likely take longer if for no other reason than because it takes awhile for the BG to get into strike range. Slow FTL implies more self-governance and independence, as the central authority has a delay in responding to threats.

Are mental powers for the taking?

I always liked the idea of psychics, if that is what you meant by 'mental powers'. I support the idea that they should be rare... but should they be powerful? Should they be 'showy' like Palpatine shooting lightning bolts from his fingertips, or should they be 'subtle' like Obi-wan doing the mind trick? My inclination is the latter.

Also, I liked how B5 dealt with it: by essentially making such powers alien, and uncommon, and also deliberately introduced into humanity via genetic tampering.

I have some of my own ideas, but I'd like to hear what other people think is good.

I've also got my own ideas, I've been working on a universe for years now. I think it shows.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Seems like the one thing people can agree on is no homogenous aliens. If I may, I'd like to run by you all a favorite alien race of mine;

The Grrusarri. They're a race of predatory marsupials from a high-g world. They started out as a traditional warrior-race/honor culture, but I found I liked them enough to develop them further. Their race evolved on a super-asian size continent, they evolved in a society that believed in ancestor worship and taking an opponents' power by eating their dead body. Much of their history was middle-ages technology, with over ten-thousand competing "overclans" dividing the geography and spawning endless wars, feuds, and alliances.

But, 600 of our years ago at the end of a devastating plague that wiped out a quarter of their population, the grrusarri civilization began to question superstitions and develop something of a scientific method. Explosives were soon discovered in the form of gunpowder, and developing better ships that could range away from land were developed (few islands and no nearby continents required no great innovations in ship development).

A few enterprising overclans invested in ship development, and discovered the other 40% of their planet's land-surface which had been long theorized to exist. There was a great mass-migration and a rennaissance in naval warfare and related sciences as these new lands turned the civilization on its ear. Mercantilism and currency became more important in shipbuilding, since one could no longer conscript an army and march to their enemies, and many warriors sought the new battlefield of the counting house. Many wars and battles slowed the exploitation of these lands, but spurred on technological development.

By the time a human colony ship, launched in earth's brief golden age, arrived at the grrusarri homeworld, they had late-19th century technology and were working on the sciences of electricity and lighter-than-air flight. The ship Gagarin landed in a largely uninhabited section of a continent slightly larger than australia. The local overclans were shocked, and sent their military forces to the new human settlement. After some initial misunderstandings and a few dead on both sides, communication was established and an agreement reached. In exchange for claim to 1.5 million square kilometers of territory, the Russian colonists would share technology and expertise.

Needless to say, grrusarri who weren't in on the deal were pissed, and over half the nations on the planet were rallied by a handfull of redfurs (red fur = ancient power/superstition) into launching an armada of several hundred battleships and thousands of troops. Forced into the situation by their neighbors, the colonists turned their handful of twenty-first century aircraft against the armada and annihalated it. A peace was reached, and the colonists and thier allies agreed to trade some manufactured goods with the rest of the world, though not the technology behind them.

Pretty fun so-far, eh?
I should mention the colony ships were sleeper ships that traveled at .5c and were launched around 2040, only a decade before a big war destroyed earth civilization. So, my various colonies are on their own.

[RedImperator]

By the way, there's no reason Earth has to be the major human player. It's perfectly concievable that given enough time, a colony or group of colonies could surpass Sol, thanks to more abundant natural resources or better governance or ruthlessness or what have you. Think of Britain, still important but by now less powerful than at least one of her daughter nations.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Good point. Maybe earth is there but Mars is more of an engineered and developed world without the mistakes of earth, which make it a bit more influential.

[Shroom Man 777]

Well, Earth doesn't have to be the most developed world, but it could be the capital. Like Washington doesn't compare to New York, right? But Shrubby still stays in Washington. Earth should have an emotional importance even though it doesn't have to be the greatest in material or political importance.

In my sci-fi universe, Earth is an super urbanized planet and the capital of the United Sovereignty of Earth. Though there are large swaths of un-urbanized natural preserves. Mars has more cities since you don't have forests or endangered species over there. Though, the best of Earth still tops anything found in the other Earth colonies.

[Typhonis 1]

depending on whjat tech you have ship to ship combat may resemble submarines going at it,not in THAT manner you hentais .

First sensors will be used to locate the target ship and prepare a solution .Keep in mind though that decos can fool your sensors and if you use em too much you give away your position .

Combat wont take place in deep space it will happen where thigs of value are near planets and such .


The weapons you choose and there ranges will determine the area the fighting takes place in. For exampl ion the game Brilliant Lances tm you can easily have a raming fight occur in the Earth moon ystem and a wrong move could have you crash land.

[Stofsk]

Combat wont take place in deep space it will happen where thigs of value are near planets and such .

I like the submarine analogy. However the quote above has implications: namely, if fighting isn't common in deep space, then that seems - to me - the logical place to hide. It'd probably be hard to reach, and because of the needle-in-the-haystack feel of it, you probably wouldn't actively search for it. Of course, there are problems which I've glossed over. Namely, if there's nothing over there then why bother setting up shop over there?

Then again what constitutes 'deep' space?

[CaptainChewbacca]

Deep space is probably 10-20 AU beyond Uranus for our solar system. There's no "sun" but plenty of starlight and plenty of cometary debris. And yes, you could hide in deep space, but again, there's nothing there but ice and dust. Eventually you'd have to come out.

Hey, if we have a civilization that stays to the solar-systems, what about a race of human-degenerate people that thrive in "deep space" and mistrust regular spacefarers? Teutons anybody?

[RedImperator]

Deep space has a serious drawback: your infrared signature will be like a lighthouse to anyone with good enough sensors to spot you from a distance. In a solar system, you can sit in front of a planet or the sun and get washed out, but out in the formless void, you'll be noticeable. No way to get around the infrared problem, either, unless your crew is comfortable at 4 kelvin.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Deep space has a serious drawback: your infrared signature will be like a lighthouse to anyone with good enough sensors to spot you from a distance. In a solar system, you can sit in front of a planet or the sun and get washed out, but out in the formless void, you'll be noticeable. No way to get around the infrared problem, either, unless your crew is comfortable at 4 kelvin.

You sure a good masking system can't overcome that? And hey, there's gotta be rogue planets of both terrestrial and gas-giant size that are radiating heat out there.

[RedImperator]

Deep space has a serious drawback: your infrared signature will be like a lighthouse to anyone with good enough sensors to spot you from a distance. In a solar system, you can sit in front of a planet or the sun and get washed out, but out in the formless void, you'll be noticeable. No way to get around the infrared problem, either, unless your crew is comfortable at 4 kelvin.

You sure a good masking system can't overcome that? And hey, there's gotta be rogue planets of both terrestrial and gas-giant size that are radiating heat out there.

Basic thermodynamics. Every system on the ship is going to generate heat, in addition to the crew's body heat and the fact the interior of the ship is some 200 degrees hotter than the background. It's possible, in theory, to create a very efficient mask that can hold the heat in--at the price of rapidly baking the crew alive. There's simply no place for the heat to go other than into space, where it's going to radiate in all directions at the speed of light.

As for rogue planets and the like: yes, there should be some out there, but not many, and while they'll make good hiding spots, not every system will have them and they won't always be in position to be useful.