simon r green's human empire vs b5

[Enforcer Talen]

Simon Green’s Empire in b5?

I’m wondering how this would shape out. The human empire would certainly be one the top races there, with billions of people and thousands and systems, but do you think they’d take over everything, or be fought to a standstill? The war wouldn’t need an excuse – the Empire enslaves or exterminates alien species as a matter of policy.

First, you have the starcruisers. Five hundred monstrous star ships, ‘huge flying mountains’ (twilight of the empire), used to patrol the empire and destroy rebellions. Their common method is scorching, in which two ships annihilate all life on a planet, three if your in a hurry. They are comparable to star destroyers, if somewhat less capable.

They have 250 disruptor cannon on average, whose destructive power you can assume by being able to scorch a planet in 48 hrs at most, which each take 2 min to recharge. They also have force shields and assault torpedoes, and ‘only one starcruiser is big enough to take on another’ (deathstalker)

You also have starfrigates, but they are rarely mentioned – the cruisers are the backbone of the navy, and are commanded by the best of the best. Of course, as this is an empire, connections may get you the rank as well, which diminishes the skill somewhat.

The empire has billions of people and thousands of worlds, and although no number was mentioned, the empire was sizeable enough to survive the loss of a thousand stars in an instant, and even thrive afterwards.

Someone must decide what to be done with new alien species, and these people are the Investigators – ‘Investigators were the Empire’s elite, trained to deal with situations too dangerous or too complex for ordinary troops. Their specialty lay in dealing with new alien species. They would study the aliens in depth, work out how best to exploit, enslave, or destroy them, and then lead the mission that would bring the alien world into the empire, one way or another. They were unparalled fighters, cold and calculating strategists unstoppable by anything but death.’ (Twilight of the Empire)

It is my personal belief that they are on the level of Darth Maul at personal combat, and the best investigators could take him out. The lightsaber would cause some trouble, but some swords are equipped with monafiliment blades, which cut through anything.

Next you have the marines. These are cannon fodder troops like nothing I’ve seen. Equipped with body armor and personal power shields that stop pretty much anything for as long as the power cell holds out, they wield hand disruptors, which can punch through six inches of steel, as well as swords. They are almost always drugged out of their skull, on things that would ‘make a mad dog killer out of a sainted nun’. (deathstalker rebellion). There are millions of them, and the Empress doesn’t care about losing a few.

They have portable disrupter cannon, which blasts tanks to bits nicely, and fly from target to target on a planet in pinnances, with 30 more cannons. In a battle, they sometimes use gravity sleds, which as far as I can tell are swoops with platforms on them – fast and easy destroy, also with disruptor cannon.

For main assaults, they have gravity barges, flying machines with armor impenetrable to hand weapons, as well as the usual assortment of cannon and shields. Slow, but brutal. As well, they have war machines, which seem similar to at-ats.

Just for spice, there are battle espers by the thousand, ‘trained to perfection, conditioned beyond pain or weakness, programmed to fight to the death, yours or theirs. The most powerful espers collected together. Supposedly. You’d need disruptor cannon to break through one of their force shields. And even then you’d get better odds betting against the cannon.’ (Deathstalker)

These beasties have the usual assortment of psionics, they light stuff on fire and melt it, go in your head and make you insane, or use force to bash you. Darth Vader never had it this good.

The shadows would be a turkey shoot to the Empire, since espers can stop their capital ships, and starcruisers always have at least one.

[Patrick Ogaard]

I had a really long comparative analysis of the two empires and then accidentally deleted it.

So here comes the executive summary:

Palpatine has the chance to take the moral high ground.

On every possible level, Lionstone's Empire is corrupt, immoral and unjust.

How would the peoples of the Galactic Empire, especially the humans, react to clones and espers being considered expendable chattels, to be used, abused, tortured, genetically distorted or destroyed as their owners wish? In particular, how would the humans of the empire react to the concept of the esp-blocker, the tortured disembodied brain of an esper kept alive in a box and prompted by constant electric shocks to produce psychic static?

How would the millions of non-human species in the Galactic Empire react to the attitude of Lionstone's Empire towards aliens? If the only good alien is an enslaved or, preferably, dead alien, that might not sit well with the non-humans of the Galactic Empire.

Finding access to Lionstone's Empire could be the jackpot for Emperor Palpatine. Faced with true, incontrovertible, unadulterated evil, how could the Rebellion continue to oppose the Emperor? The Rebels would be morally obligated to support the Empire in its righteous crusade to take out Lionstone's trash.

Lionstone's starcruisers are impressive, but she does not have many of them, and the big special models, with the new alien stardrive and more guns, shields and speed, are rare. Palpatine could match the total forces available to Lionstone without major effort.

Lionstone's cruisers, like the rest of her military infrastructure, are impressive, but they do not measure up against what Palpatine has available. The Galactic Empire also has disruptor weapons, with very similar effects to those of Lionstone's, but the Galactic Empire prefers blasters and turbolasers. Further, the Galactic Empire's weapons are superior in that they are supplied by superior energy systems. Where Lionstone's cruisers and troops have to wait 120 seconds for their disruptors to build up a sufficient charge, even the heavy weapons fielded by Palpatine's forces need no more than two or three seconds to build up sufficient charge. Therefore, an ISD has effectively sixty times its rated weaponry when compared directly to a starcruiser.

Lionstone's forces lack fighters. They may have pinnaces, but pinnaces are hardly in the same class, being closer to armed Lambda class shuttles. The high firepower of even a TIE fighter will produce further problems for a starcruiser, adding further strain to the shields and further targets to worry the starcruiser's gunners.

On the ground, Lionstone's forces lack adequate firepower once again. Their disruptors are limited to the two minute recharge period, and the only solution they have is to add more disruptors to allow staggered fire. Some troops are equipped with force shields similarl to the designs fielded by the Gungan army: sufficient firepower will batter the shields down, something that E-Webs, ranks of stormtroopers and supporting AT-STs are good for.

In close combat, where Lionstone's marines always end up because of the technology her Empire has chosen to keep available, the marines are at a further disadvantage when facing stormtroopers. While all the marines have swords and some have force shields, the stormtroopers have nearly swordproof armor and blasters capable of firing rapidly for a hundred searing bolts of plasma or more. Also, the marines, when they do wear armor, tend to wear shirts of steel mesh or full battle armor of plates over steel mesh; battle armor is neither proof against swords nor is it likely to even noticeably impede a blaster bolt.

Lionstone's forces have massive war machines available, like gravity barges armed with multiple disruptor cannon, but all of them are inherently inferior to the models fielded by the Galactic Empire, if only for one reason: sheer volume of firepower. Palpatine's AT-ATs and floating fortresses can match and very possibly exceed the size and armor protection of Lionstone's war machines, and Palpatine's war machines can maintain a constant hail of fire.

Lionstone's Empire as a whole is also much smaller than Palpatine's, likely on a par with political entities like the Corporate Sector Authority or the Hapan Cluster.

The one field where Lionstone has the advantage is espers. Battle espers are rare and expensive to produce, however, and unless something like the Mater Mundi or Legion acts to coordinate and channel esper abilities the espers are limited to relatively small scale effects. Psi storms and the like are possible, but they are unlikely to be able to reach into orbit without major boosting by a coordinating entity, so that simple bombardment of esper positions by orbital turbolasers is one possible answer, especially if armed probe droids and long range artillery bombardments are used initially to engage suspected espers.

Ultimately, of course, the proper counter for espers would be Force adepts. If the Rebellion and Galactic Empire reconcile in a joint crusade, the task force is likely to be led by the three Skywalkers and supported by lesser Force practitioners like the Hands of the Emperor and selected Red Guards.

It would be an interesting fight, but the final result would not be in doubt. Unless, of course, Palpatine sees the advantage of a decades-long campaign. After all, Lionstone's Empire is literally the Empire of Evil. Interesting idea.

[Enforcer Talen]

yep. tho, while I was pondering human empire vs others, I noted the imperials had 500 times the ships, at the least, each one with twice the comparable fire power. game over rather quickly.

tho, palpatine does have a tendency to scorch or enslave aliens as well - chewbacca for example. there is an intense bias against aliens, tho not as extreme as the human empire. I'd love to see them against the mon cals. . .hehe.

my bets are on the human empire on the ground, but they'll get trashed in space by the imperial fleet.

so a more even question is human empire vs b5.

[Enforcer Talen]

bumpity.

-rereads-

-ponders-

[Kosh_The_Vorlon]

Uh, guys? This one was versus Babylon 5, not Star Wars..

[Enforcer Talen]

or decide if it could beat sw. lol. Im curious on it's scale of power.

[Darth_Shinji]

Yeah the DS empire would lose to the GE. Though they could win if we include superweapons. The DS empire could only use theres once before the Deathstalker hides it but.... And Patrick Ogaard, the DS ground forces shields make descent weapons If I remember correctly. They wouldn't be stopped by armour. And those things were invulable to anything for ten minutes. Rate of fire might have noghting to do with it.
But b5 would get raped.

[Enforcer Talen]

well, the madness maze survivors would change the war, I think. can slaughter armies just thinking about it. Im more concerned with the empires on their own. .