Is Pink Floyd's The Wall a Rock Opera?

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-03-04 12:51pm

One of my co workers is a Pink Floyd fan, he has all the albums, memorbilia and the like. He even collects Pink Floyd cover band albums. Anyway the other day we were discussing The Wall because I recently picked it up on sale on DVD and the picture quality is astounding not to mention sound. So we were comparing notes when I mentioned that the Wall seemed to be a rock opera much like Tommy and Green Day's American idiot.

He got all offended and huffy and told me The Wall was most definately not a Rock opera. So I asked him what the hell it was then? He retorted without batting an eye that it was a concept album. Well what the hell is that?! So what do you say? Rock Opera or Concept Album (What the hell is that?)

Post by **Zaia** » 2005-03-04 02:23pm

If I'd listened to 'The Wall' more than once or twice aaaaaages ago I could chime in with my answer to your question, so I'll have to try to guess at what that guy meant by 'concept album.' My thinking is that it doesn't tell a story (even a vague one), but that the songs are all tied together like they really are just one giant song, like that thread I posted a while back. I guess 'Dark Side of the Moon' and 'Close to the Edge' by Yes would fit into that category of being an epic song without any real plot or characters or anything. Maybe?

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-03-04 02:45pm

I would agree with what you're saying save that the songs are all sung from the POV of the main character Pink as he slowly unravels and goes insane. the songs progressively tell of his deterioration and final redemption in order like a story. Is that any different from the Jesus of Suburbia and his travails in Green Day's album? I don't know. Seems that the idea of a rock opera can be very elastic as to what makes an allbum one or not.

Its all fresh in my mind only because I stumbled across the DVD and recently watched it.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2005-03-04 02:45pm

It's a fucking Rock Opera and your friend ought to admit it. Call a spade a spade. The Wall is telling the story of one Floyd Pinkerton, from birth to his descent into insanity, complete with violence, tragedy, massive instrumentation, choruses, and more. If it isn't a Rock Opera, there's no such thing.

Now, a concept album is an album which is built up around a central idea. Sergeant Pepper's is a good example of a concept album. The idea is that it's a recording of a club band from the start of their set to the finish. They play an entrance song, sad pieces, upbeat pieces, an advertisement (Being for the Benefit of Mister Kite--one of my favorite songs, period), and an exit song.

Now, technically speaking I suppose you could call The Wall a concept album. But the concept was that of an Opera.

Stravo wrote:Is that any different from the Jesus of Suburbia and his travails in Green Day's album?

It's about a billion times better, but whatever.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2005-03-04 02:46pm

When I think of Rock Opera, I think of Queen and not much else. Although I haven't listened to The Wall all in one sitting.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2005-03-04 02:49pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:When I think of Rock Opera, I think of Queen and not much else. Although I haven't listened to The Wall all in one sitting.

I think the confusion and the argument about whether or not The Wall is a rock opera comes from the fact that The Wall is so much better than every other rock opera ever made. Fans of Floyd don't want the magnum opus to be associated with the other representatives of that genre, because most other attempts at the same thing are no good.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-03-04 02:52pm

Pablo Sanchez wrote:
Cpl Kendall wrote:When I think of Rock Opera, I think of Queen and not much else. Although I haven't listened to The Wall all in one sitting.
I think the confusion and the argument about whether or not The Wall is a rock opera comes from the fact that The Wall is so much better than every other rock opera ever made. Fans of Floyd don't want the magnum opus to be associated with the other representatives of that genre, because most other attempts at the same thing are no good.

I'll agree to that easily. I remember back in High School listening to the Wall over and over again. Probably one of the finest albums ever because even now, 20 years later I'll stop and listen.

Some other rock operas like Tommy (I've only partly heard) Queen Ryche's Operation Mindcrime (which I actually enjoyed) and more recently Green Day's American Idiot quite possibly the best album this past year that I've heard don't really touch me like The Wall did.

Post by **Zaia** » 2005-03-04 03:05pm

Stravo wrote:I would agree with what you're saying save that the songs are all sung from the POV of the main character Pink as he slowly unravels and goes insane. the songs progressively tell of his deterioration and final redemption in order like a story.

Then yes, it's a rock opera.

You going to show your friend this thread?

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-03-04 03:20pm

Zaia wrote:
Stravo wrote:I would agree with what you're saying save that the songs are all sung from the POV of the main character Pink as he slowly unravels and goes insane. the songs progressively tell of his deterioration and final redemption in order like a story.
Then yes, it's a rock opera.

You going to show your friend this thread?

YEP.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-03-04 03:29pm

Yah-har, I say it's a concept album.

Stuff like Tommy by The Who are rock operas.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2005-03-04 04:08pm

The Wall, like Operation Mindcrime, is a Rock Opera.

Tinkerbell · Post by **Tinkerbell** » 2005-03-04 04:58pm

:raises hand:

Another vote for rock opera. Though when I think of epic rock, I think more of Rhapsody (no not the song!)

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2005-03-04 06:24pm

Rock Opera, from the sounds of it.

Personally, I'd say Rhapsody are epic speed/power metal, though certainly operatic. A kind of less cheesy (but still plenty cheesy) Dragonforce.

The concept album masters, in my opinion are ...and oceans, absolutely superb.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2005-03-04 08:07pm

I just finished listening to The Wall and I have to agree with the rock opera assessment, where as previously I only granted that honour upon Queen.

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » 2005-03-04 08:14pm

Classic rock opera, at least as much as Tommy, maybe even moreso than Quadrophenia .....

SCRawl · Post by **SCRawl** » 2005-03-04 08:18pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:I just finished listening to The Wall and I have to agree with the rock opera assessment, where as previously I only granted that honour upon Queen.

What Queen album is a rock opera? "Queen 2" is pretty close, but I really can't think of any others.

Oh, and try Rush's "2112" for another excellent rock opera. Those guys are so good at what they do it's scary sometimes.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2005-03-04 08:36pm

SCRawl wrote:
What Queen album is a rock opera? "Queen 2" is pretty close, but I really can't think of any others.

Oh, and try Rush's "2112" for another excellent rock opera. Those guys are so good at what they do it's scary sometimes.

Maybe not rock opera in the same sense that The Wall is, but they certainly seem to combine both opera and rock styles in their music.

SCRawl · Post by **SCRawl** » 2005-03-04 10:19pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:
SCRawl wrote:
What Queen album is a rock opera? "Queen 2" is pretty close, but I really can't think of any others.

Oh, and try Rush's "2112" for another excellent rock opera. Those guys are so good at what they do it's scary sometimes.
Maybe not rock opera in the same sense that The Wall is, but they certainly seem to combine both opera and rock styles in their music.

Perhaps I'm missing the point, but isn't a rock opera basically an opera in the style of rock music? In other words, a story told in a series of songs? By this definition (I'm sure someone will let me know if I'm wrong) I can't think of a Queen album which would apply. Queen was a rock group featuring a singer with an operatic voice, but produced no rock operas.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2005-03-04 10:29pm

SCRawl wrote:
Perhaps I'm missing the point, but isn't a rock opera basically an opera in the style of rock music? In other words, a story told in a series of songs? By this definition (I'm sure someone will let me know if I'm wrong) I can't think of a Queen album which would apply. Queen was a rock group featuring a singer with an operatic voice, but produced no rock operas.

Ok, you've got my agreement. Wrong term for Queen. How about classing their songs as Rock Ballads?

Maraxus · Post by **Maraxus** » 2005-03-04 10:33pm

Having listened to the wall more than 40 times, (i'm listeining to the first CD right now) I'd have to say that it is definately a rock opera.

Tinkerbell · Post by **Tinkerbell** » 2005-03-04 10:55pm

Rye wrote:Personally, I'd say Rhapsody are epic speed/power metal, though certainly operatic. A kind of less cheesy (but still plenty cheesy) Dragonforce.

:pounces and huggles mercilessly:

No one, NO ONE I know knows who they are, let alone listen to them.

The awesome points keep racking up.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-03-05 03:40am

LadyTevar wrote:The Wall, like Operation Mindcrime, is a Rock Opera.

Yes amoung other rock operas, better then Bowie's early works,

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2005-03-05 10:20am

I'm told that its a Rock Opera, since it's linked narratively and not in style like a concept album would be. Not that I know anything about music

Post by **Zaia** » 2005-03-05 05:12pm

Stravo wrote:
Zaia wrote:You going to show your friend this thread?
YEP.

Doh. Poll results not lookin' too good for him right now... Poor feller.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2005-03-05 05:52pm

The Wall is an opera.

Dark Side of the Moon is a concept album.