Fundies - ARGH

[McC]

I know, I know, "another fundamentalist thread at SD.net? say it ain't so!" But I need to get this off my chest because I find it excessively irritating.

I posted the URL (from N&P) about the mark of the beast being changed from 666 to 616 to an IRC channel I hang out in. There's one woman there who is a rabid fundamentalist. It's disheartening to talk to her or even see her talk.

So, after posting the last three paragraphs of the article (her name changed, 'cause I'm ethical like that):

[11:10:54] <Fundy> Satan has many lies. I chose to believe the truth.
[11:11:35] <McC> And why is it the "truth"?
[11:13:54] <Fundy> Because I have a personal relationship with Him, and He speaks to me personally and tells me what is truth and what is lies.
[11:15:10] <McC> So, you mean that it's the truth because you're schizophrenic?
[11:15:36] <Fundy> No. It is the truth because He says it is.
[11:15:50] <McC> And who granted "Him" authority?
[11:16:17] <Fundy> He is God. He is THE authority.
[11:18:30] <McC> See, here's the problem: you're forcing God to conform to your view of him/her/it. You're requiring that "This book says exactly what God is," even though observations of the natural world blatantly contradict things written in said book. I tend to think the book got what God was thinking/doing -wrong-. It was written by men, after all.
[11:19:02] <McC> Case-in-point: there's no way 10,000 species of animal could all fit on a boat 300 cubits long
[11:20:15] <Fundy> The ark was a lot bigger then that actually. Men were bigger at that time, as the atmosphere of the earth was different and everything grew larger.
[11:20:54] <McC> The fossil record is pretty clear in showing that men have been getting bigger over time, not getting smaller.
[11:21:07] <Fundy> That's a lie.
[11:22:33] <McC> No, it's quite true. Unless you want to point me to an article that has contrary information.
[11:22:44] <Fundy> I would love to send you some dvd's some time that would refute everything that evolution has come up with. I don't believe in evolution. I believe in creation.
[11:22:58] <McC> I know you do. You also haven't looked closely at the 'science' behind creation.
[11:23:05] <Fundy> Bull
[11:23:09] <McC> Because, basically, there -isn't- any science behind creation
[11:23:50] <Fundy> ::shakes her head:: There is such a thing as creation science.
[11:24:13] <McC> No, there's a term called "creation science," which doesn't remotely resemble the scientific methodology of developing ideas.
[11:24:22] <McC> http://www.creationtheory.org/
[11:24:24] <McC> Be my guest.
[11:24:52] <Fundy> Anyway, I need to head out if I want to get something to eat for lunch today. I'm not going to argue with anyone. It serves no purpose.

It's so irritating that she just left the conversation. It's like she knows she's about to get stomped, so she just runs off. GAAAAAAH.

And the other denizens of the IRC channel, while all friends, grow ever-wearier of my constant attempts to beat this woman over the head with logic and empiricism, to the point of basically yelling at me saying, "If her faith is what she needs to get by, then let her have it" and such things. Apparently she has a hard life (people more sympathetic than I know more about her), but I don't particularly feel inclined to ask -- there's no justification for just closing your brain like this.

[mr friendly guy]

Maybe you should ask them, what does "having a hard life" have to do with inability to grasp facts and logic? Sounds like a red herring.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

If you're repeatedly hitting the woman over the head with logic and empiricism, and she isn't budging, even a little bit, and your friends are increasingly getting the feeling of Same Shit, Different Day from you . . . then it may be time to admit that her Wall of Ignorance rivals that of the late, unlamented Darkstar's.

And yes, the 'hard life' thing is a bit of a red herring, though some people choose to react to difficult situations by latching onto the first seductive thing that requires that they do no thinking about it whatsoever. Religion happens to fit the bill nicely . . . in fact, most prosetylizing religions are pretty much designed around this principle. And there comes a point where only years of slow wearing and patience will bring about a change . . . except it isn't really worth it in the case of someone you talk to in an IRC channel.

[lazerus]

Yikes.

"I'm not going to argue with anyone. It serves no purpose." Really sums her up. "I'm not going to argue because my mind is totally unchangeable."

I recommend giving up.

[Coyote]

"What we have here is... failure to communicate. Some men... you just can't reach."

Let it go. If a person is so fucked up that only a rabid clinging to dogmatic thought is the only way they can get through the day without turning to meth or heroin, well, let them have their crutch.

[DPDarkPrimus]

"The ark was a lot bigger than that, actually?"

Quote her the verses.

[Utsanomiko]

If you really wanted to be an ass at this point, you could throw against her WoI the notion that what she thinks is "god's word" is actually Satan posing as god. It's perfectly self-contained because they're taking the word of whoever 'he' is as complete truth.

But there really isn't much reason to bother. It's why I haven't debated against such flim-flam in years.

[Executor32]

Oh, but don't you know? Men were bigger back then because of the different atmosphere, so the cubit was longer back then.

[DPDarkPrimus]

If you really wanted to be an ass at this point, you could throw against her WoI the notion that what she thinks is "god's word" is actually Satan posing as god. It's perfectly self-contained because they're taking the word of whoever 'he' is as complete truth.

But there really isn't much reason to bother. It's why I haven't debated against such flim-flam in years.

You need to put a copy of your musings about that on a permanent webpage, so I can have it bookmarked to read whenever I want.


McC:
Here's the verses to throw at her, if you're interested.

6:14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
6:15 And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.
6:16 A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it.
6.22 Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.
-Genesis 6:14-16,22

[sketerpot]

Oh, but don't you know? Men were bigger back then because of the different atmosphere, so the cubit was longer back then.

Don't you mean they were smaller back then due to poorer nutrition?

[Zero]

Man, I don't care HOW big you are, you couldn't fit 2 of every animal in existance on something of that size. Besides, with a global flood, all of the plant life that they fed on would die off, and if they were carnivores, they'd have to eat the other animals in order to live. None of this crap makes any sense... if there were some evidence for a global flood, I might wonder a bit, but... the only evidence we have is of a reasonably large flood in the region of the world in which this myth was created. They probably claimed to themselves it was a global flood to eradicate the filth of the world, and then made up stories to explain why there were still animals in the world. Funny how people can be...

[Civil War Man]

Man, I don't care HOW big you are, you couldn't fit 2 of every animal in existance on something of that size. Besides, with a global flood, all of the plant life that they fed on would die off, and if they were carnivores, they'd have to eat the other animals in order to live. None of this crap makes any sense... if there were some evidence for a global flood, I might wonder a bit, but... the only evidence we have is of a reasonably large flood in the region of the world in which this myth was created. They probably claimed to themselves it was a global flood to eradicate the filth of the world, and then made up stories to explain why there were still animals in the world. Funny how people can be...

I suppose it helped that the various parasites Noah had to take along don't take up too much space. Load up a couple mosquitos, and they can carry the malaria to make sure they survive. Every species has some form of lice to carry along. Just had to stick a couple leeches in some convenient place (that must have been a fun 40 days).

[wolveraptor]

I bet Noah wished he perished with all of them wicked leeches, bunnies, and mice. Which is another thing I never got: how can a cockroach be evil? Stinky, annoying and gross yes, but evil?

[wolveraptor]

On topic: Perhaps you're being too confrontational with her. Do you approach her to debate, or does she approach you? If it's the former, just accept that she doesn't want to discuss and leave it be. If it's the latter, she has no reprieve. You're free to smack down her arguements, day after day after day, until you're both old geezers.

[Ahurazithramis]

Maybe you should not have expected her to be patient with you after calling her schizophrenic?[/quote]

[Illuminatus Primus]

I just flame/embaress people like that. They WILL NOT change and cannot. They're zombies. Their ability to use their brain and behave independently and generally exercise their humanity when it comes to that is nonexistant; they basically act like animals, at least in that department. There's a reason we call these cretins sheep.

You must learn to ignore their bleeting.

[Grandmaster Jogurt]

[11:19:02] <McC> Case-in-point: there's no way 10,000 species of animal could all fit on a boat 300 cubits long
[11:20:15] <Fundy> The ark was a lot bigger then that actually. Men were bigger at that time, as the atmosphere of the earth was different and everything grew larger.

So the cubit was longer, making the boat bigger, but the animals were also bigger...

[Gandalf]

[11:19:02] <McC> Case-in-point: there's no way 10,000 species of animal could all fit on a boat 300 cubits long
[11:20:15] <Fundy> The ark was a lot bigger then that actually. Men were bigger at that time, as the atmosphere of the earth was different and everything grew larger.

So the cubit was longer, making the boat bigger, but the animals were also bigger...

Don't forget the animals since then that have become extinct.

[CJvR]

Don't forget the animals since then that have become extinct.

Didn't they die in the flood?
Termites must have been real fun to have on the Ark...

[wolveraptor]

Ah, but they only started to eat wood after the flood, due to MICROevolution caused by extra-radiation filtering through the atmosphere now that the flood clouds are gone.

[DPDarkPrimus]

[11:19:02] <McC> Case-in-point: there's no way 10,000 species of animal could all fit on a boat 300 cubits long
[11:20:15] <Fundy> The ark was a lot bigger then that actually. Men were bigger at that time, as the atmosphere of the earth was different and everything grew larger.

So the cubit was longer, making the boat bigger, but the animals were also bigger...

My thoughts exactly. If everything's bigger, then it doesn't make a difference.

[wautd]

Irritating? I found it the funniest thing I've read so far to start this week

I'm getting serious doubts at the evolution theory. You'd think such dumbasses are an evolutionary dead end, yet they're still running around en masse

[Darth Servo]

Oh, but don't you know? Men were bigger back then because of the different atmosphere, so the cubit was longer back then.

If the different atmosphere (which would need to be thicker than Venus' to provide enough water for the flood) made men bigger, it would make animals bigger too.

oops

[wolveraptor]

Irritating? I found it the funniest thing I've read so far to start this week

I'm getting serious doubts at the evolution theory. You'd think such dumbasses are an evolutionary dead end, yet they're still running around en masse

Read "The Darwin Awards". Stupidity may have been needed to charge a flailing Megaloceras to impale it on your spear.

Personally, I think the invention of welfare is to blame. You should need to pass an intelligence test before recieving gov aid.

[Surlethe]

Ah, but they only started to eat wood after the flood, due to MICROevolution caused by extra-radiation filtering through the atmosphere now that the flood clouds are gone.

Of course. Before that, they ate...air...right.

Personally, I think the invention of welfare is to blame. You should need to pass an intelligence test before recieving gov aid.

Hell, you ought to be need to pass an intelligence test to be allowed to breathe.