Social/Health workers attitude and The Losers

[PainRack]

The Losers, is a novel written by David Eddings and Leigh Eddings, authors of several best selling fantasy series.

Now, the Losers has a point about the dregs of society, giving them the term 'The Losers'. Its a pet theory of the protaganist, and one of the key arch is that the entire government, symbolised by the healthcare system and welfare is designed to create a bunch of helpless people who must live on the government auspices. Healthcare workers are depicted as drug pushers who can only treat the symptoms, and the attached social worker as working to eliminate every form of independence the patient has and forcing them to work themselves into the system. Subsuquently, once out in the real world, they are thrown right into welfare, given enough money to live by but not well, removing every form of self-pride and esteem they have.

So, the question is, do you think this may be what is happening with the welfare system? Is it dysfunctional, in that it is actually creating, and actively creating an entire class of helpless ppl who are forced to become dependent on the government, and that the system actively destroy any person attempt to recover his own independence?

[Sean Howard]

So, the question is, do you think this may be what is happening with the welfare system? Is it dysfunctional, in that it is actually creating, and actively creating an entire class of helpless ppl who are forced to become dependent on the government, and that the system actively destroy any person attempt to recover his own independence?

There are hard core right wingers who think the "welfare state" is designed to actively accomplish this agenda. I tend to discount conspiracy theories, but I can see some inadvertant results along these lines.

For instance, lets say you are on welfare, and you get $1000 a month. If some low paying gig comes along that pays $1100 a month, many low income people would say fuck it, I'd rather get $100 less and not have to do anything at all. Or mow lawns for cash on the side, etc.

I must admit, if someone came up to me and said, hey, I'll pay you 10% less than what you make now, and all you have to do is sit home all day.... well... human nature is what it is.

There's also that weird grey area where you make too much to receive government health benefits, but you're still in a low paying job, so your employer doesn't give you any. Once again, many people would rather descend to the point where they get "free stuff" rather than have to struggle to make ends meet.

I've always perceived that there's this "hump" you have to get over to get off welfare and into productive society. The hump is that you have to take a temporary hit in pay/benefits, and you have to work hard, in exchange for a higher living standard in the future. Some people can't get over that hump.

[mr friendly guy]

The "losers" seem to imply that welfare is creating the demand, rather than just supplying it. I think that people who need welfare exists independently whether their country does provide welfare or not.

That being said, welfare should not just be a "band aid" solution, it should actually try to encourage people back to be able to achieve a reasonable standard to living (ie look for a job or else we will withhold welfare payments, and once you get a job, we will decrease welfare payments).

Now I am not sure if welfare in providing this "band aid" solution is due to the fact that the welfare industry thinks that it will suffer if these people get off welfare, or just due to an inefficient way of doing things.

[PainRack]

The "losers" seem to imply that welfare is creating the demand, rather than just supplying it. I think that people who need welfare exists independently whether their country does provide welfare or not.

The story is suppose to be an allegory between God and the Devil for the protaganist soul, but the idea is that when someone hits a bump in the road and stumble, welfare essentially ensures he spiral down into the bottom.

[Zed Snardbody]

The problem in the idea that the goverment is seaking to create reliance on welfare is that there are programs to help people go back to work without taking away their benifits right off.

Its about the person and how much effort they want to put into it.

Section 8, government subsidised housing is a good example.

[PainRack]

The problem in the idea that the goverment is seaking to create reliance on welfare is that there are programs to help people go back to work without taking away their benifits right off.

Its about the person and how much effort they want to put into it.

Section 8, government subsidised housing is a good example.

That's the stated function. However, the author was making the point that the entire welfare program had become dysfunctional, as practically, the social workers viewed the people as "cases", not people to be helped. Statistically, they were failures and it thus became the job of those better off to help them. These two aspects, viewing people as cases and math, ignoring the human need and a general belief to view oneself as better than them( a purely human reaction IMO) generally resulted in those on welfare to become supplicants, people wishing, begging you for help. Help that's neccesary for them to survive, as they have burden like kids and homes.

Once they became tied to requiring help from the government, social factors and pyschological factors then joined in to create a sense of uselessness, thus in order to fulfill a need for self actualisation, they resorted to creating "crisis" in their lives, which perpuatuate the destructive nature of their lives.

Its a nice theory, but, I don't know anything about the conditions in America to see whether its bull or not.....

Mind providing some links for the welfare section you posted anyway??

[AdmiralKanos]

The "losers" seem to imply that welfare is creating the demand, rather than just supplying it. I think that people who need welfare exists independently whether their country does provide welfare or not.

The story is suppose to be an allegory between God and the Devil for the protaganist soul, but the idea is that when someone hits a bump in the road and stumble, welfare essentially ensures he spiral down into the bottom.

Purchase a history book and see what life was like for people who ran into hard times before welfare.