Scientology

[Gil Hamilton]

OK, I've wondered this for quite awhile and when I go to get information on it from the horses mouth, they seem to want to mail me information rather than give it to me directly so I'll defer to potentially more knowledgeable people.

What is scientology about? I know it was founded by bad science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard as a means to part fools from their money, but what is the religion itself about? What do they believe? What is there doctrines and rituals? Do they go to a church of some sort? I know there are scientology centers (there was one near my high school) but do they have Scientology Masses of some sort?

Any information would be appreciated, thanks.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

OK, I've wondered this for quite awhile and when I go to get information on it from the horses mouth, they seem to want to mail me information rather than give it to me directly so I'll defer to potentially more knowledgeable people.

What is scientology about? I know it was founded by bad science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard as a means to part fools from their money, but what is the religion itself about? What do they believe? What is there doctrines and rituals? Do they go to a church of some sort? I know there are scientology centers (there was one near my high school) but do they have Scientology Masses of some sort?

Any information would be appreciated, thanks.

Find the book L. Ron Hubbard book "Dianetics" from your local library. Read the book. Then shoot yourself to get the stupid out of your head. That would be the quickest way to learn about Scientology, as Dianetics is the basis of the whole shebang.

[Frank Hipper]

Will you accept a decidedly biased source?

[Darth Wong]

One tip: a friend of mine once said that you should never, ever write the Scientology people asking for information. Because he did that, and the last time I saw him, they were still sending him junk mail. He had asked them to stop, he had marked "return to sender" on it and stuck it back in the mailbox, nothing worked. They simply would not stop bombarding him with junk mail.

[Gil Hamilton]

One tip: a friend of mine once said that you should never, ever write the Scientology people asking for information. Because he did that, and the last time I saw him, they were still sending him junk mail. He had asked them to stop, he had marked "return to sender" on it and stuck it back in the mailbox, nothing worked. They simply would not stop bombarding him with junk mail.

That's why I know so little about it. Every source that was run by them wanted to snail mail me the information, necessitating me to give them my mailing address. I was unwilling to do this.

[Erik von Nein]

One tip: a friend of mine once said that you should never, ever write the Scientology people asking for information. Because he did that, and the last time I saw him, they were still sending him junk mail. He had asked them to stop, he had marked "return to sender" on it and stuck it back in the mailbox, nothing worked. They simply would not stop bombarding him with junk mail.

That's why I know so little about it. Every source that was run by them wanted to snail mail me the information, necessitating me to give them my mailing address. I was unwilling to do this.

Yeah, don't. Once they have your information they won't let it go, not unless your storm their building with a lawsuit or some criminal charge and even then it's not guarenteed to work.

[Nephtys]

Non-Biased? Well, here you go.

Everything bad about you is because of two things. Thetans, and Psychiatrists. Psychiatrists are evil malpractioners of science, who harm people by doing the opposite of what they need all the time. What really makes you sometimes feel sad or angry are thetans, spirits of aliens killed in a horrible nuclear holocaust 10 billion years ago on the planet teegeeack which has since been renamed Earth. The Emperor of the Galactic Confederation, Xenu, is the one to blame, and he is being trapped behind eternal force-shields. Everyone else you know are puppets for thetans, except higher leveled scientologists.

You see, once you level in scientology, they keep giving you new information, and new 'revelations', as well as boosting your HP. Their principle thetan meter, called an E-Meter, measures your posativeness. It is also an electrical multimeter, but stamped with scientology bullshit. Also, feeding money to L. Ron Hubbard is good, for he is the messiah who had it all revealed to him. Someday also, Scientologists will escape Earth with what is to be called the Space Org. Until then, you merely have to keep paying money.

Biased? A little. True? Every single bit of what I said, except the part about you gaining HP. That's a total lie.

[mr friendly guy]

Hubbard invented "Dianetics", a new science dealing with mental health (ie its a rival to psychiatry and psychology). He was soon hit by law suits so he decided to change it into a religion (as opposed to an actual medical science as previously claimed), and the Church of Scientology was born.

The crux of dianetics is that bad experiences cause these "engrams" to be imprinted on your cells, which of course relate to your mental problems. Tog give you an example of what Hubbard means "Papa hits mama, baby gets an engram". That's right, the foetus will develop these "engrams". Despite defining these engrams as "permanent" the way of treat mental problems is to remove these "permanent" engrams by going into a "reverie", ie you relive your experiences in front of a scientology member. Of course the fact that he defines these "engrams" as something which can be observed but doesn't bother to show their existence through experimentation reveals dianetics for the pseudoscience that it is.

Hubbard of course once requested the military to help him with his "problems" (Hubbard served in WWII although he never actually saw combat), but was refused. Two psychiatrist had diagnosed him with paranoid schizophrenia. Without any proper help and perhaps reinforced by his followers, Hubbards delusions grew more and more strange (previously he had showed the common delusions associated with paranoid schizophrenia, that people - usually communists and psychiatrist were out to "get him").

Among his greatest hits include

Human suffering is due to us being infected with "Thetans", which are the souls of dead aliens. How did these alien souls get here? Well that's easy. An evil alien tyrant named Xenu (I kid you not) banished these aliens to Earth (only it wasn't called Earth back then) and dropped hydrogen bombs on them (Xenu apparently thought it was a great way to deal with the over population problem).

How did Hubbard find this out? Well you see, while undergoing his "reverie", Hubbard could see relive past lives, so he found out all about these "Thetans". While he was at it, he used this ability to calculate the age of the universe as trillions of years old, because apparently these souls have been around for that long.

And what happened to Xenu? Well he is apparently still alive, plotting Scientology's downfall. But don't worry, Hubbard apparently has god like powers to protect us from Xenu. And you can too. For the exorbitant amounts of cash you fork out, Scientology will allow you to also unlock you great powers which the evil Xenu denies to us.

What happen to Hubbard. Well according to the enemies of the cult he died. But in reality we all know he decided to retire to another dimension to continue his "researches".

And that is Scientology in a nutshell.

And remember, there is no such thing as a chemical imbalance in the brain. Its the lies of the evil psychiatrists. Human suffering is caused because we are infested by the souls of dead aliens. The truth will prevail.

[Bounty]

Human suffering is due to us being infected with "Thetans", which are the souls of dead aliens. How did these alien souls get here? Well that's easy. An evil alien tyrant named Xenu (I kid you not) banished these aliens to Earth (only it wasn't called Earth back then) and dropped hydrogen bombs on them (Xenu apparently thought it was a great way to deal with the over population problem).

...

And what happened to Xenu? Well he is apparently still alive, plotting Scientology's downfall.

You have got to be kidding me.

Seriously, this is really what they believe ? You have to accept that there's such a thing as "Thetans" to be a scientologist ? It sounds like something from a mediocre Marvel comic.

You sure Xenu isn't an alias for Galactus ?

[mr friendly guy]

You have got to be kidding me.

Seriously, this is really what they believe ? You have to accept that there's such a thing as "Thetans" to be a scientologist ? It sounds like something from a mediocre Marvel comic.

You sure Xenu isn't an alias for Galactus ?

Sadly, I am not kidding you.

As to whether you accept Thetans exist, well there is different levels of scientology. Celebrities like Cruise get a more kiddie gloves version, where they most likely refrain from some of the more sci fi sounding stuff, but still retain their distaste for psychiatry.

And no, Xenu sounds pretty different from Galactus. Galactus eats planets, Xenu doesn't. Galactus isn't some galactic ruler, he is a force of nature. Xenu is a ruler of some sort.

[spikenigma]

interestingly I had a free stress test in a scientology centre not so long ago

I don't know quite how scientific it was:

* stress being predominently psychological and to a lesser expent physiological
* stress having many different symptoms for many different types

but I had to grip two metal poles which passed a 4v (I think?) current through me and register my stress levels

'twas quite interesting - the dial barely moved

(I took an IQ test there too)

[Darth Wong]

That's not really any more preposterous than an invisible superbeing in the sky who creates the universe in six days from his mind but is wrestled to a standstill by a Jewish guy on the street and talks through bushes.

[Nephtys]

interestingly I had a free stress test in a scientology centre not so long ago

I don't know quite how scientific it was:

* stress being predominently psychological and to a lesser expent physiological
* stress having many different symptoms for many different types

but I had to grip two metal poles which passed a 4v (I think?) current through me and register my stress levels

'twas quite interesting - the dial barely moved

(I took an IQ test there too)

That's called an E-Meter. Your stress level incidently is directly related to how hard you grip the meter. It's like one of those love-testers in a theater lobby, but uh... a holy religious icon.

[spikenigma]

That's called an E-Meter. Your stress level incidently is directly related to how hard you grip the meter. It's like one of those love-testers in a theater lobby, but uh... a holy religious icon.

oh, I see...

I must not have gripped it too hard then (didn't want to get electrocuted!)

[Drooling Iguana]

That's not really any more preposterous than an invisible superbeing in the sky who creates the universe in six days from his mind but is wrestled to a standstill by a Jewish guy on the street and talks through bushes.

Except that we came up with the stories of the invisible man in the sky during a time when we didn't know any better. Scientology doesn't have that excuse.

[Duckie]

As to whether you accept Thetans exist, well there is different levels of scientology. Celebrities like Cruise get a more kiddie gloves version, where they most likely refrain from some of the more sci fi sounding stuff, but still retain their distaste for psychiatry.

Even in the case on non-celebrities, by the time you get to "OT3" where you're taught about Xenu and the Thetans, you've invested almost a million dollars in the religion and have been indoctrinated to believe anything your fellow scientologists say. That's probably why most people who get that far stay that far.

[Flagg]

<snip>

Among his greatest hits include

Human suffering is due to us being infected with "Thetans", which are the souls of dead aliens. How did these alien souls get here? Well that's easy. An evil alien tyrant named Xenu (I kid you not) banished these aliens to Earth (only it wasn't called Earth back then) and dropped hydrogen bombs on them (Xenu apparently thought it was a great way to deal with the over population problem).

How did Hubbard find this out? Well you see, while undergoing his "reverie", Hubbard could see relive past lives, so he found out all about these "Thetans". While he was at it, he used this ability to calculate the age of the universe as trillions of years old, because apparently these souls have been around for that long.

And what happened to Xenu? Well he is apparently still alive, plotting Scientology's downfall. But don't worry, Hubbard apparently has god like powers to protect us from Xenu. And you can too. For the exorbitant amounts of cash you fork out, Scientology will allow you to also unlock you great powers which the evil Xenu denies to us.

<snip>

And remember, there is no such thing as a chemical imbalance in the brain. Its the lies of the evil psychiatrists. Human suffering is caused because we are infested by the souls of dead aliens. The truth will prevail.

I think the most amazing part of this is that people hear this and reply with some veriation of, "You know... That makes alot of sense".
Though I agree with Darth Wong that in context this is no more absurd than any other religious myth.

[spikenigma]

For the exorbitant amounts of cash you fork out, Scientology will allow you to also unlock you great powers which the evil Xenu denies to us.

what powers specifically?

I would have thought they'd be a bit vague with their promises (i.e. "good things will start to happen to you", "you'll start to feel an inner light ", "you can influence people around you" )

but saying you will gain actual powers?

[Duckie]

For the exorbitant amounts of cash you fork out, Scientology will allow you to also unlock you great powers which the evil Xenu denies to us.

what powers specifically?

I would have thought they'd be a bit vague with their promises (i.e. "good things will start to happen to you", "you'll start to feel an inner light ", "you can influence people around you" )

but saying you will gain actual powers?

The ones you mentioend are good examples- here's a char: Link

Things like "Ability to recognize the source of problems and make them vanish" and "Ability to communicate freely with anyone on any subject" are unverifiable, of course.

[Gil Hamilton]

Wow, that's almost as crazy as the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Thanks for the info.

[Illuminatus Primus]

That's not really any more preposterous than an invisible superbeing in the sky who creates the universe in six days from his mind but is wrestled to a standstill by a Jewish guy on the street and talks through bushes.

Not really, but the fact its stamped with open conceits and allusions to modern corporations and science fiction and not the arcane lore that people associate with religious revelation yet STILL works, is pretty astounding.

Another thing is its positively provable these recent messiahs are frauds. Jesus may well have been, but its too long ago to know one way or another. L. Ron Hubbard and Joesph Smith are provably open frauds.

[Spoonist]

You have got to be kidding me.

Seriously, this is really what they believe ? You have to accept that there's such a thing as "Thetans" to be a scientologist ? It sounds like something from a mediocre Marvel comic.

You sure Xenu isn't an alias for Galactus ?

Sadly, I am not kidding you.

As to whether you accept Thetans exist, well there is different levels of scientology. Celebrities like Cruise get a more kiddie gloves version, where they most likely refrain from some of the more sci fi sounding stuff, but still retain their distaste for psychiatry.

And no, Xenu sounds pretty different from Galactus. Galactus eats planets, Xenu doesn't. Galactus isn't some galactic ruler, he is a force of nature. Xenu is a ruler of some sort.

And that's why we see Cruise go ballistic in different news media about prescribing drugs vs depression. He has totally bought the propaganda of the cult. Luckily it seems like his ex has deconverted.

A side note is that they had some higher up jump ship when Hubbard actually died since according to Hubbard if you follow the tenets of scientology you will become immortal. The church then changed it to immortal in the other place (you know the planet from which we really come from, far far away in a galaxy etc). No kidding.

Also as a warning they have an army of lawyers and are not afraid to use them. Many debunkers and defectors has had their lives ruined by stupid lawsuits, the tactic being even if the court dislikes the case you still have to show up or get a lawyer to show up for you. Imagine then having a lawsuit each week in different states. Mostly they have stopped doing this because of the bad press, mostly...

I own and have read the whole book Dianetics, just like I own and have read the bible and the Quran, the problem being i can't remember much since it was really boring, at least in the other texts there are some juicy stuff but here it was just going on and on and on and on and on and... well you get the picture.

Also scientology works like a pyramid scheme. You can take their expensive courses but if you recruit some people to take a course as well you get a discount. That's why you see a lot of people out there trying to get people there to take their tests, like the so called IQ test I saw that one of you had took. With the higher levels being excessively expensive you can meet really desperate recruiters trying to earn their next level.

Their church also own a lot of private firms that for a fee help you stop smoking, and while you are vulnerable please look into this pamphlet. they also have some companies who specialize in employment testing, so if you have gone on a job interview for a major corporation and had to fill in a personality test there is a high probability that they supplied the test.

Some years ago we had a gaming club who rented a flat in the same building as the scientologists. We had lots of trouble back and forth. Them trying to recruit, us telling our gamers about scientology, our gamer kids who tore their posters down and started heckle them, them trying to get the police to evict us, us following their recruiters around town handing out antipamphlets, them calling the police again (harassment), us starting talking to their fodder, them asking us not to talk to the fodder, me explaining our position of reality including what happens if 200 teenagers are told their gaming club has to close down due to them, them calling the police again (illegal threat), me talking to their chief, them dropping the charges, then 2 months later them moving to a different location.
With the endresult of two of our leaders getting hatemail (snail version), and me and another guy getting a reocrd with the police even though the charges where dropped.
Even though we planted some sense in some of them I don't think that we got any of the fodder to deconvert.

[Spoonist]

Oh and their recruitment base is not the stupid like some other religions. It's the intellectual and well-educated. They don't want large flocks, they only need a select few with a steady income. Most of the recruiters I met where either sociology majors or engineers.
So most of you are prime targets.

[Keevan_Colton]

Oh and their recruitment base is not the stupid like some other religions. It's the intellectual and well-educated. They don't want large flocks, they only need a select few with a steady income. Most of the recruiters I met where either sociology majors or engineers.
So most of you are prime targets.

Excuse me, I have to go collapse in a laughing heap somewhere....Engineers and Sociology majors compared in a single breath...

[Nephtys]

Oh and their recruitment base is not the stupid like some other religions. It's the intellectual and well-educated. They don't want large flocks, they only need a select few with a steady income. Most of the recruiters I met where either sociology majors or engineers.
So most of you are prime targets.

You're insane. They target stupid middleclass americans who have no idea what the hell they're talking about, and with confidence issues. They prey on people who feel depressed and offer them a totally imaginary solution at 'only' a few thousand dollars... per level. You need to gain levels, don't you? Paying for brainwashing is fun. They'd like people who can sustain that level of income of course, but they mostly prey on simple middle-class dolts.