Doomsday Machine from TOS VS. ISD

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2002-12-05 12:24pm

How much of a threat would the Doomsday Machine from TOS be to a single ISD?

I know the Doomsday Machine is toast as soon as the ISD fires a couple of blasts from her turbolasers into the mouth of the Doomsday Machine. After all, an internal explosion of 97 megatons destroyed the Doomsday Machine in the episode. So a shot from the ISD light turbolasers would kill the Doomsday Machine.

Until that time, would the Doomsday Machine's "forcebeam" do anything to the ISD? Also, would the shots from a turbolaser have any effect on the hull of the Doomsday Machine?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-12-05 12:29pm

Opening multi teraton salvo should do the trick against the hull.

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2002-12-05 01:45pm

The ISD wouldn't even need to get close. It can send TIE bombers with antiship torpedoes to do the job.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-12-05 04:39pm

1. I doubt its hull will be impervious for long.
2. One bomber+proton torpedo=boom.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2002-12-05 04:41pm

just fly some Tie-Droids packed full of explosives into the maw of the thing. That should kill it

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2002-12-05 05:15pm

Why would the ISD even need to face it? One meter-long concussion missile has enough energy ot destroy it, if it detonated inside.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2002-12-05 05:16pm

I guess I'll have to tackle these issues soon enough, no?

T-1000 · Post by **T-1000** » 2002-12-05 05:25pm

If the Doomsday Machine were to fight intelligently, say someone pioleting, then it could, conceivably just fire a full power blast at the ISD, and the fight is over.

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2002-12-05 06:17pm

Even if the Doomsday Machine was piloted intelligently, the ISD can just launch its TIEs and get out of the DM's range. The fighters are more than enough to deal with it.

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2002-12-05 06:22pm

If I remember correctly, it has been stated that the DM fired a beam of pure anti-protons or something to that effect? That would mean that as long as the ISD keeps its shields up then there will be no reaction.

T-1000 · Post by **T-1000** » 2002-12-05 10:37pm

Jim Raynor wrote:Even if the Doomsday Machine was piloted intelligently, the ISD can just launch its TIEs and get out of the DM's range. The fighters are more than enough to deal with it.

Yes, well since it is generally assumed that both sides at least start the match in firing range of another, then the PK unleashes a full powered blast, end of fight!

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2002-12-05 10:40pm

T-1000 wrote:If the Doomsday Machine were to fight intelligently, say someone pioleting, then it could, conceivably just fire a full power blast at the ISD, and the fight is over.

If the Doomsday machine gets good intelligence then the ISD does to. The ISD hyperjumps right on top of the thing and opens fire. Bye-bye doomsday machine.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-05 10:43pm

We have no power calcs of the Doomsday machine. It's weapon supposedly carved up planets for the purposes of consuming them. Not exactly Death Star style exploding planet like a bomb.

T-1000 · Post by **T-1000** » 2002-12-05 10:52pm

Vympel wrote:We have no power calcs of the Doomsday machine. It's weapon supposedly carved up planets for the purposes of consuming them. Not exactly Death Star style exploding planet like a bomb.

It blows up planets. That means more power than a Star Destroyer can take. Sheesh, I don't really think we need heavy mathmatics to figure that out.

T-1000 · Post by **T-1000** » 2002-12-05 10:53pm

Darth Servo wrote:
T-1000 wrote:If the Doomsday Machine were to fight intelligently, say someone pioleting, then it could, conceivably just fire a full power blast at the ISD, and the fight is over.
If the Doomsday machine gets good intelligence then the ISD does to. The ISD hyperjumps right on top of the thing and opens fire. Bye-bye doomsday machine.

You're thinking of the Picard manuever. Is a hyperjump that short even possible? A second at hyperdrive should take the SD out of the system. To be able to do that fine of a jump, have they ever done that?

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-05 10:53pm

T-1000 wrote: It blows up planets. That means more power than a Star Destroyer can take. Sheesh, I don't really think we need heavy mathmatics to figure that out.

No, it doesn't blow up planets. That's my point.

T-1000 · Post by **T-1000** » 2002-12-05 10:56pm

Vympel wrote:
T-1000 wrote: It blows up planets. That means more power than a Star Destroyer can take. Sheesh, I don't really think we need heavy mathmatics to figure that out.
No, it doesn't blow up planets. That's my point.

Of course it does. That's how it gains fuel, by blowing up planets and then consuming the rubble. Wong even calculated the power on his Planet Killer section.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-05 11:01pm

T-1000 wrote:
Of course it does. That's how it gains fuel, by blowing up planets and then consuming the rubble. Wong even calculated the power on his Planet Killer section.

I know

The Doomsday Machine cuts up planets for fuel, but it is unknown how long this process takes, or how much of the planet's mass is actually processed, as opposed to being cast away to drift in space (the iron which makes up most of a typical planet's mass is probably not that useful). However, the Doomsday Machine requires the ability to disintegrate a planet into a floating debris field at the very least, which in turn requires the ability to overcome gravitational potential energy (otherwise the planet would still be intact). This means that the Doomsday Machine does at least 5E16 megatons of work during the process

Because we don't know over how long a period it does this work, we cannot calculate whether one 'shot' would overcome the shields of a Star Destroyer. It could take minutes, hours, or days even.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2002-12-05 11:05pm

T-1000 wrote:Of course it does. That's how it gains fuel, by blowing up planets and then consuming the rubble. Wong even calculated the power on his Planet Killer section.

The point is we don't know if it does it all at once or one piece at a time. Does it liberate a small chunk of the crust, convert it into fuel and then use that energy to slice up more of the planet?

T-1000 · Post by **T-1000** » 2002-12-05 11:06pm

Vympel wrote: Because we don't know over how long a period it does this work, we cannot calculate whether one 'shot' would overcome the shields of a Star Destroyer. It could take minutes, hours, or days even.

Yes, well since we are assuming tacticle intelligence for the Planet Killer, we can assume that it will fire it's most powerful blast, and take out the SD in one shot.

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2002-12-05 11:07pm

Vympel wrote:
T-1000 wrote:
Of course it does. That's how it gains fuel, by blowing up planets and then consuming the rubble. Wong even calculated the power on his Planet Killer section.
I know

The Doomsday Machine cuts up planets for fuel, but it is unknown how long this process takes, or how much of the planet's mass is actually processed, as opposed to being cast away to drift in space (the iron which makes up most of a typical planet's mass is probably not that useful). However, the Doomsday Machine requires the ability to disintegrate a planet into a floating debris field at the very least, which in turn requires the ability to overcome gravitational potential energy (otherwise the planet would still be intact). This means that the Doomsday Machine does at least 5E16 megatons of work during the process
Because we don't know over how long a period it does this work, we cannot calculate whether one 'shot' would overcome the shields of a Star Destroyer. It could take minutes, hours, or days even.

The Doomsday Machine may not be too powerful compare to an ISD. The Enterprise did survive several hits from the forcebeam with her shields up. The Enterprise did take damage, but an ISD is much stronger then any vessel the Federation fielded at the time of the TOS. So, an ISD should stand a better chance of surviving a hit from the forcebeam.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-12-05 11:08pm

T-1000 wrote:Of course it does. That's how it gains fuel, by blowing up planets and then consuming the rubble. Wong even calculated the power on his Planet Killer section.

No, it does not blow up a planet and then consume the rubble; it grabs chunks and consumes them over time.

BTW, I calculated the energy required for extraction of the planetary mass over time, not the power. Power and energy are not identical. The TOS Doomsday Machine could not take a 100 megaton blast in its maw without destruction or even the relatively miniscule explosion of a shuttlecraft without minor damage, so this obviously limits the rate at which it can absorb energy.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-12-05 11:09pm

T-1000 wrote:Yes, well since we are assuming tacticle intelligence for the Planet Killer, we can assume that it will fire it's most powerful blast, and take out the SD in one shot.

Its most powerful blast is obviously nowhere near the teraton range; need I remind you that Decker sat on his ship and listened to his crew calling for help while it attacked the planet they were on? If its beam were that powerful, it would have been a very short cry for help.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-05 11:10pm

T-1000 wrote:
Yes, well since we are assuming tacticle intelligence for the Planet Killer, we can assume that it will fire it's most powerful blast, and take out the SD in one shot.

Eh?

What does tactical (heheheh tacticle looks like testicle ahem) intelligence have to do with it? We don't know what it's most powerful blast IS. You've missed the point.

T-1000 · Post by **T-1000** » 2002-12-05 11:10pm

Darth Servo wrote:The point is we don't know if it does it all at once or one piece at a time. Does it liberate a small chunk of the crust, convert it into fuel and then use that energy to slice up more of the planet?

Unlikely. Since the Enterprise found rubble still left from it's first system it attacked, its more likely that it blows it up in one shot, and then does its best to tractor or collect all the flying and scattered debris as it goes. If it attempted the more gradual method you are suggesting, it would seem that it would be more than able to consume the whole of a planet without any waist. However, there is clearly waist, as seen in the begining of the episode. Assuming that all elements within a planet can be succesifully processed by the Doomsday Machine, this would fit the theory that there are just certain elements missed by the Planet Killer.