Cody's Hesitation
Moderator: Vympel
- FSTargetDrone
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 7878
- Joined: 2004-04-10 06:10pm
- Location: Drone HQ, Pennsylvania, USA
Cody's Hesitation
Sorry if this has been discussed, (a search is giving me too many results to sort through) but when Palpatine gives the order to deep-66 the Jedi, there seems to be the slightest pause from Cody before he confirms it.
Clearly Cody has some past interaction with Kenobi, and knows him well enough for some friendly banter: "When have I ever let you down?"
Is this addressed in the novelization? Cody doesn't seem to have any particular qualms about gunning down his recent ally, and he quickly gives the order to fire. But the pause is interesting (unless I am reading too much into it!).
Clearly Cody has some past interaction with Kenobi, and knows him well enough for some friendly banter: "When have I ever let you down?"
Is this addressed in the novelization? Cody doesn't seem to have any particular qualms about gunning down his recent ally, and he quickly gives the order to fire. But the pause is interesting (unless I am reading too much into it!).
- SpacedTeddyBear
- Jedi Master
- Posts: 1093
- Joined: 2002-08-20 11:54pm
- Location: San Jose, Ca
- FSTargetDrone
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 7878
- Joined: 2004-04-10 06:10pm
- Location: Drone HQ, Pennsylvania, USA
- Spanky The Dolphin
- Mammy Two-Shoes
- Posts: 30776
- Joined: 2002-07-05 05:45pm
- Location: Reykjavík, Iceland (not really)
Commander Cody, Generals Skywalker and Kenobi have participated in numerous campaign in the Outer Rim Sieges, so they've built up camaraderie.
The clones' loyalty is to the Republic is unwavering. Up until Order 66 was issued, when the Jedi were their generals, they were all on the same side, so their loyalty to the Jedi was just as absolute. Order 66 tells them that the Jedi are traitors.
Ultimately, the clones are automatons, brainwashed from birth. They experienced no hesitation; enemies of the Republic must be destroyed.
The clones' loyalty is to the Republic is unwavering. Up until Order 66 was issued, when the Jedi were their generals, they were all on the same side, so their loyalty to the Jedi was just as absolute. Order 66 tells them that the Jedi are traitors.
Ultimately, the clones are automatons, brainwashed from birth. They experienced no hesitation; enemies of the Republic must be destroyed.
"..history has shown the best defense against heavy cavalry are pikemen, so aircraft should mount lances on their noses and fly in tight squares to fend off bombers". - RedImperator
"ha ha, raping puppies is FUN!" - Johonebesus
"It would just be Unicron with pew pew instead of nom nom". - Vendetta, explaining his justified disinterest in the idea of the movie Allspark affecting the Death Star
"ha ha, raping puppies is FUN!" - Johonebesus
"It would just be Unicron with pew pew instead of nom nom". - Vendetta, explaining his justified disinterest in the idea of the movie Allspark affecting the Death Star
Pretty much hit the nail on the head. Order 66 wasn't some special biological order, it was just an order stating the Jedi had gone rogue. The clones were hardwired to be completely loyal to the government and command structure of the Republic, and the Jedi were not outright part of this.
*Spoiler Alert*Though its interesting to note that the next Republic Commando book seems to indicate the level of interaction and bonding that RCs made with Jedi has them resist the order and Vader is forced to hunt down the RCs.
*Spoiler Alert*Though its interesting to note that the next Republic Commando book seems to indicate the level of interaction and bonding that RCs made with Jedi has them resist the order and Vader is forced to hunt down the RCs.
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
From what I heard, it's slightly different, but the differences are important. The Clone Commandos, due to their broader training, education and encouraged independence, came to the conclusion that Order 66 must have been the CIS slicing into their communications and broadcasting disruptive orders.Alyeska wrote:*Spoiler Alert*Though its interesting to note that the next Republic Commando book seems to indicate the level of interaction and bonding that RCs made with Jedi has them resist the order and Vader is forced to hunt down the RCs.
"..history has shown the best defense against heavy cavalry are pikemen, so aircraft should mount lances on their noses and fly in tight squares to fend off bombers". - RedImperator
"ha ha, raping puppies is FUN!" - Johonebesus
"It would just be Unicron with pew pew instead of nom nom". - Vendetta, explaining his justified disinterest in the idea of the movie Allspark affecting the Death Star
"ha ha, raping puppies is FUN!" - Johonebesus
"It would just be Unicron with pew pew instead of nom nom". - Vendetta, explaining his justified disinterest in the idea of the movie Allspark affecting the Death Star
- Spanky The Dolphin
- Mammy Two-Shoes
- Posts: 30776
- Joined: 2002-07-05 05:45pm
- Location: Reykjavík, Iceland (not really)
How the various people addresses or refers to Palpatine in ROTS is rather ambiguous. As you said, Cody replied "Yes, my lord", Mas Amedda addressed him as "My master" after the Sidious-Yoda duel and the characters in general seems to be hesitant whether he is the Chancellor or the Emperor.Eleas wrote:What I find very interesting is what Cody replied to Order 66. It wasn't "yes, chancellor", or even "yes, sir."
He said, "yes, my lord."
My point exactly. Which set me to wondering exactly when the Sith had become recognized members of the Republic Armed Forces... if Alyeska's statement was correct.Spanky The Dolphin wrote:They all reply with "my lord" pretty much.
No, it's obvious that there was something more than the Clones' loyalty to the Republic going on. Cody recognized Sidious without introduction, which Sidious had furthermore expected.Alyeska wrote: Order 66 wasn't some special biological order, it was just an order stating the Jedi had gone rogue. The clones were hardwired to be completely loyal to the government and command structure of the Republic, and the Jedi were not outright part of this.
Björn Paulsen
"Travelers with closed minds can tell us little except about themselves."
--Chinua Achebe
"Travelers with closed minds can tell us little except about themselves."
--Chinua Achebe
- NecronLord
- Harbinger of Doom
- Posts: 27384
- Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
- Location: The Lost City
Dark Lord spoilers:
This features clone commandos refusing to accept the veracity of Order Sixty Six, and helping the jedi escape until the mess is sorted out. Palpatine actually goes out of his way to stress that eventually, given enough experience, clone troopers can break their programming, something like "no matter how well conditioned they are, eventually clones become the sum of their experiences."
On: My Lord. We're talking about a universe with counts, and with kings, queens and princesses as elected offices. Lord may be an honourific of the Chancellor. The full title may be Lord Chancellor of the Galactic Republic, Leader of the Senate, or something. We don't see commonders talk to him very often, so we don't know if 'My Lord' is the correct title for the chancellor or not.
This features clone commandos refusing to accept the veracity of Order Sixty Six, and helping the jedi escape until the mess is sorted out. Palpatine actually goes out of his way to stress that eventually, given enough experience, clone troopers can break their programming, something like "no matter how well conditioned they are, eventually clones become the sum of their experiences."
On: My Lord. We're talking about a universe with counts, and with kings, queens and princesses as elected offices. Lord may be an honourific of the Chancellor. The full title may be Lord Chancellor of the Galactic Republic, Leader of the Senate, or something. We don't see commonders talk to him very often, so we don't know if 'My Lord' is the correct title for the chancellor or not.
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
- Lord Revan
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 12238
- Joined: 2004-05-20 02:23pm
- Location: Zone:classified
it should pointed out that Palpatine was still identiefible after the lighting attack, so Cody doesn't have to know he's talking to Darth Sidious.
I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n
You forget that Palpatine had just moments ago been incredibly disfigured, and in the transmission looked nothing like his public self -- but fairly close to the aspect of Lord Darth Sidious.NecronLord wrote: On: My Lord. We're talking about a universe with counts, and with kings, queens and princesses as elected offices. Lord may be an honourific of the Chancellor. The full title may be Lord Chancellor of the Galactic Republic, Leader of the Senate, or something. We don't see commonders talk to him very often, so we don't know if 'My Lord' is the correct title for the chancellor or not.
Over a blurry holo, wearing Sidious' typical robes, with a disfigured face? Unlikely at best. Also, we have never AFAIK seen anyone address the Chancellor by the title of Lord.Lord Revan wrote:it should pointed out that Palpatine was still identiefible after the lighting attack, so Cody doesn't have to know he's talking to Darth Sidious.
Björn Paulsen
"Travelers with closed minds can tell us little except about themselves."
--Chinua Achebe
"Travelers with closed minds can tell us little except about themselves."
--Chinua Achebe
- NecronLord
- Harbinger of Doom
- Posts: 27384
- Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
- Location: The Lost City
Darth Sidious did not appear publically. How would Cody know to recognise him? On the other hand, I don't see why a caller display (You are being called by: Chancellor Palpatine), like the one I have on my mobile phone, is beyond the Galactic Republic.Eleas wrote:You forget that Palpatine had just moments ago been incredibly disfigured, and in the transmission looked nothing like his public self -- but fairly close to the aspect of Lord Darth Sidious.
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
- Spanky The Dolphin
- Mammy Two-Shoes
- Posts: 30776
- Joined: 2002-07-05 05:45pm
- Location: Reykjavík, Iceland (not really)
I'm fairly certain Palpatine wanted the clones to be loyal ultimately to him as a Sith, and that would be easily accomplished. However, your theory is the simpler, and through parsimony, wins.NecronLord wrote: Darth Sidious did not appear publically. How would Cody know to recognise him? On the other hand, I don't see why a caller display (You are being called by: Chancellor Palpatine), like the one I have on my mobile phone, is beyond the Galactic Republic.
Not in the movie, at least.Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Doesn't at least one refer to him as "Lord Sidious"?
Björn Paulsen
"Travelers with closed minds can tell us little except about themselves."
--Chinua Achebe
"Travelers with closed minds can tell us little except about themselves."
--Chinua Achebe
- NecronLord
- Harbinger of Doom
- Posts: 27384
- Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
- Location: The Lost City
Not according to the online transcripts I have.Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Doesn't at least one refer to him as "Lord Sidious"?
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
- NecronLord
- Harbinger of Doom
- Posts: 27384
- Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
- Location: The Lost City
They're ultimately loyal to the republic though, not to any given chancellor (until they altered the constitution to proclaim empire, anyway). It would be rather a problem if in Labyrinth of Evil, when they're on the trail of the treasonous Sith Lord responsible for the war, one of the clones came out with 'Really? That's Palpatine's Alias...'Eleas wrote:I'm fairly certain Palpatine wanted the clones to be loyal ultimately to him as a Sith, and that would be easily accomplished. However, your theory is the simpler, and through parsimony, wins.
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
- Spanky The Dolphin
- Mammy Two-Shoes
- Posts: 30776
- Joined: 2002-07-05 05:45pm
- Location: Reykjavík, Iceland (not really)
- The Original Nex
- Jedi Council Member
- Posts: 1593
- Joined: 2004-10-18 03:01pm
- Location: Boston, MA
Perhaps the incoming transmission simply was coded as, "From the Office of the Supreme Chancellor" and that's how Cody know who it was.Eleas wrote:You forget that Palpatine had just moments ago been incredibly disfigured, and in the transmission looked nothing like his public self -- but fairly close to the aspect of Lord Darth Sidious.NecronLord wrote: On: My Lord. We're talking about a universe with counts, and with kings, queens and princesses as elected offices. Lord may be an honourific of the Chancellor. The full title may be Lord Chancellor of the Galactic Republic, Leader of the Senate, or something. We don't see commonders talk to him very often, so we don't know if 'My Lord' is the correct title for the chancellor or not.
Over a blurry holo, wearing Sidious' typical robes, with a disfigured face? Unlikely at best. Also, we have never AFAIK seen anyone address the Chancellor by the title of Lord.Lord Revan wrote:it should pointed out that Palpatine was still identiefible after the lighting attack, so Cody doesn't have to know he's talking to Darth Sidious.
This reminds me, Did Palpatine send out that signal to every commander at once or call them individualy? I ask because we have commanders responding and his message does change. But it seems like that would be a long process to call all the seperate clone commanders on every front to relay that order. It would stagger the execution and increase the chance of word getting out. Anyone know what the deal is with that?
Post 666: Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:51 am
Post 777: Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:49 pm
Post 999: Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:19 am
- The Original Nex
- Jedi Council Member
- Posts: 1593
- Joined: 2004-10-18 03:01pm
- Location: Boston, MA
- FSTargetDrone
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 7878
- Joined: 2004-04-10 06:10pm
- Location: Drone HQ, Pennsylvania, USA
As to clones recognizing Paly's hologram image or not, there must be other unseen information that is transmitted to the clones, confirming the message is genuine. The image of Palpatine (and hologram usage in general) could merely be a formality or visual convenience. A clone (or anyone else for that matter) couldn't count on a blurred image alone to be proof enough that who the clone is speaking to is really who he or she looks like.