clone army vs. zentradi

[Darksider]

what would happen if a clone army of 200,00 infantry 650 AT-TE's, 50 gunships and 72 jedi starfighters faced a zentradi army of 200,00 infantry (micronized) 700 regualt battlepods and 72 fighter pods?

[Damaramu]

Since there is barely any canon technical data on Zentraedi or UN Spacy technology, the results are unknown.

RPG data does not qualify, nor does the made up BS from Robotech.com.

The closest you're gonna get is from The Macross Compendium, which is considered canon, but does not get too in-depth when it comes to technical data.

[Ghost Rider]

Like any SDF-1 battle we have no clue but if what little we know is correct modern earth weaponry with some slight adjustment(meaning the targeting systems and what not...the constantly were speaking of using depleted Uranium round and missle while having nuclear reactions) are to be taken for truth...

The Clones take this one in the bag.

[Darth_Shinji]

I don't see the point in micronizing the Zentradi... Some might call it fairing up the odds, but face it, this is not your typical zentradi army versus a typical clone army match... so whats the point? I could do a versus between superman and spiderman with Supes arms and legs cut off, and wearing a kyptonite necklace... Not neccaly the most accurate version of a fight if those two would really fight now is it?

This fight... don't know how zentradi weapons wold do micronized... A real zent-clone army fight? The zentradi.

[Typhonis 1]

interesting note the Zentradei are clones as well

[Ghost Rider]

Also honestly as I pointed out...Zentradi were taken out by convential weaponry(unless somehow Earthers were able to reverse engineer some super ammo for every Veritech...the ammo was convential 20th century tech)

Thus if Zentradi can fall from .50 cal shells...the Clones will take this one in the bag...given Star Wars tech is many magnitudes compared to convential arms of the 20th century.

[Crayz9000]

Star Wars vs Macross, Episode V: The Micronians Strike Back

IN a stunning victory for Micronian forces, the Grand Army of the Republic has soundly defeated an equivalent Zentraedi force. One Zentraedi representative was quoted as saying "We never knew those little guys packed that much of a punch!"

Supreme Chancellor Palpatine of the Republic is pleased with the news that all Zentraedi forces on Geonosis are in retreat. Earlier this week, he authorized the construction of a moon-sized battlestation in the Geonosis shipyards. Realizing that the new battlestation represented a grave threat to their massive fleet, the Zentraedi invaded Geonosis four days ago to halt production at the source, but they were initially slowed by corporate security forces.

The Senate is currently debating whether to declare war on the Robotech Mercantile Empire.

[Darth_Shinji]

Also honestly as I pointed out...Zentradi were taken out by convential weaponry(unless somehow Earthers were able to reverse engineer some super ammo for every Veritech...the ammo was convential 20th century tech)

Thus if Zentradi can fall from .50 cal shells...the Clones will take this one in the bag...given Star Wars tech is many magnitudes compared to convential arms of the 20th century.

How are is the fact that they use depleted uranium bullets... far bigger than a man. going to help? Also what are your sites sources? Definatly not the series since the blasts look more like energy blasts thann bullets. Not saying that they are energy blasts... but they don't look like .50 calibar shells.

And also a legion of stormtoopers were taken out by a small group of rebels surpoted by the e-woks with bows and stones. So your generlizing is in error to begin with.

[Crayz9000]

And also a legion of stormtoopers were taken out by a small group of rebels surpoted by the e-woks with bows and stones. So your generlizing is in error to begin with.

In that case, the Ewoks had the element of surprise and familiarity with the terrain. Neither sides have that advantage this time around, so YOU'RE the one who is generalizing.

I hate to say it, but the Zentraedi get their giant asses kicked, badly.

[Darth_Shinji]

And also a legion of stormtoopers were taken out by a small group of rebels surpoted by the e-woks with bows and stones. So your generlizing is in error to begin with.

In that case, the Ewoks had the element of surprise and familiarity with the terrain. Neither sides have that advantage this time around, so YOU'RE the one who is generalizing.

I hate to say it, but the Zentraedi get their giant asses kicked, badly.

True they did have those advatanges... do these facts weakened stormtrooper armour to the point that the conccussive force of a stone being thrown on top of thier heads killed/stunned them? Does this mean that normal zentradi weapons, more like artilly pieces than actaully hand weapons, wouldn't kill them by the dozen? By the shear concussive force alone? Couldn't normal troopers stomp hundreds out of exisisence?

If they were giants in this scenio, it's not there asses that would get kicked. I assure you.

Also your joke was funny... because you were trying to put the empire against tirol when you specifacaly mentioned Macross... which you put the empire considering a war against the protoculture...

[Crayz9000]

True they did have those advatanges... do these facts weakened stormtrooper armour to the point that the conccussive force of a stone being thrown on top of thier heads killed/stunned them?

Have you even read some of the articles on Stardestroyer.net? Like http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Hat ... ies-5.html ?

Even indestructible armour wouldn't keep its wearer from falling over if hit by a sufficiently large object! Is this guy seriously trying to suggest that if you are wearing armour and you fall over, this has something to do with the strength of the armour? Armour blocks projectiles but it doesn't violate conservation of momentum! In real life (there I go, talking about that pesky "real life" thing again), hockey players can get concussions even though their helmets survive the impact; it's the sudden acceleration which knocks them unconscious, not a structural failure of the helmet.

Does that answer your question, smartass?

Does this mean that normal zentradi weapons, more like artilly pieces than actaully hand weapons, wouldn't kill them by the dozen? By the shear concussive force alone? Couldn't normal troopers stomp hundreds out of exisisence?

Your typical Zentraedi soldier stands roughly 3 stories tall, or about 11 meters. A Veritech in humanoid form was able to masquerade as a Zentraedi well enough to infiltrate one of their ships.

Thus, your typical Zentraedi soldier is not much larger than a AT-TE, and certainly not larger than an AT-AT. Even LAATs are larger.

Also your joke was funny... because you were trying to put the empire against tirol when you specifacaly mentioned Macross... which you put the empire considering a war against the protoculture...

I wasn't striving for accuracy. Macross is the name of the show, just like Star Wars is the name of the movie. Did you seriously think that I was saying all of Star Wars vs. SDF-1?

[HemlockGrey]

Incidentally, it wasn't a stormtrooper legion. Most of the legion still defending the main base.

[Durandal]

Hm ... surprise plus camoflage plus small target profiles plus familiarity with the terrain plus months of covert surveillance data through which to set up booby traps. Yeah, the Ewoks were a really piss-poor fighting force.

No need to micronize the Zentradi. The infantry units would simply hang back and set up some artillery to blast the towering giants that are the enemy soldiers from a few kilometers away. The Jedi starfighters would put up a formidable fight, but against an opponent with 5 times as many numbers (772 pods vs. 72 fighters and 50 gun ships seems a bit steep, doesn't it?). Then again, the advantage of shields which can take a beating, superior weapons and the micro-superlasers could cut through many enemy craft. If we put Jedi behind the controls of each Jedi starfighter, they could just squeak out on top and then have the gunships start having fun by blasting the enemy infantry from the air.

Given that the clones have incredible artillery firepower at their disposal, and that each enemy soldier is the size of a walker, I don't see how this would be a problem for them. There is no need to even use the 200,000 infantry troops if we leave the Zentradi at their usual size.

[Darth_Shinji]

True they did have those advatanges... do these facts weakened stormtrooper armour to the point that the conccussive force of a stone being thrown on top of thier heads killed/stunned them?

Have you even read some of the articles on Stardestroyer.net? Like http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Hat ... ies-5.html ?

Even indestructible armour wouldn't keep its wearer from falling over if hit by a sufficiently large object! Is this guy seriously trying to suggest that if you are wearing armour and you fall over, this has something to do with the strength of the armour? Armour blocks projectiles but it doesn't violate conservation of momentum! In real life (there I go, talking about that pesky "real life" thing again), hockey players can get concussions even though their helmets survive the impact; it's the sudden acceleration which knocks them unconscious, not a structural failure of the helmet.

Does that answer your question, smartass?

Yes that was exactly what I was talking about.

Your typical Zentraedi soldier stands roughly 3 stories tall, or about 11 meters. A Veritech in humanoid form was able to masquerade as a Zentraedi well enough to infiltrate one of their ships.

Okay. So that somehow makes my points irevent? You could still kill troopers just by stepping on them. And no matter how primative the weapon a bullet that large would kill a good bit with every shot... not to mention that this makes alot of firepower you could use against any of the clone armies forces... remember these weapons can be fired at aircarft too.

Thus, your typical Zentraedi soldier is not much larger than a AT-TE, and certainly not larger than an AT-AT. Even LAATs are larger.

So they gang up in gruops and rip the thing apart. Plus zentradi have shotguns and missle launchers that take out veritechs.

I wasn't striving for accuracy. Macross is the name of the show, just like Star Wars is the name of the movie. Did you seriously think that I was saying all of Star Wars vs. SDF-1?

Macross is the name of the japanese version... which doesn't have tirol. They have the protoculture.

[Durandal]

Okay. So that somehow makes my points irevent? You could still kill troopers just by stepping on them. And no matter how primative the weapon a bullet that large would kill a good bit with every shot... not to mention that this makes alot of firepower you could use against any of the clone armies forces... remember these weapons can be fired at aircarft too.

I think his basic point was that the average Zentradi trooper is a complete fucking idiot. But, in my scenario, the clonetrooper infantry wouldn't even be needed. The Zentradi troopers could be mowed down from afar by the immense amounts of long-range artillery at the disposal of the clonetroopers.

[Darth_Shinji]

Hm ... surprise plus camoflage plus small target profiles plus familiarity with the terrain plus months of covert surveillance data through which to set up booby traps. Yeah, the Ewoks were a really piss-poor fighting force.

The point was that people were claiming that zentradi tech was inferior based on stuff they are not even sure about and thats why the CA would win... I pointed out that fact isn't always the case. I never called the e-woks piss-pour but their were a stone-age race.

No need to micronize the Zentradi. The infantry units would simply hang back and set up some artillery to blast the towering giants that are the enemy soldiers from a few kilometers away.

Some artilly wouldn't be enought to take out all of the zents. Plus for all intents and purposes the zents are walking artillery pieces.

The Jedi starfighters would put up a formidable fight, but against an opponent with 5 times as many numbers (772 pods vs. 72 fighters and 50 gun ships seems a bit steep, doesn't it?). Then again, the advantage of shields which can take a beating, superior weapons and the micro-superlasers could cut through many enemy craft. If we put Jedi behind the controls of each Jedi starfighter, they could just squeak out on top and then have the gunships start having fun by blasting the enemy infantry from the air.

First off pods can't fly in atmosphere. He made them equal ecept in terms of surport fire. Which in the zentradi's case is the entire army. homing missles should do the trick.

Given that the clones have incredible artillery firepower at their disposal, and that each enemy soldier is the size of a walker, I don't see how this would be a problem for them. There is no need to even use the 200,000 infantry troops if we leave the Zentradi at their usual size.

Ecept when the artilly is downed by return fire and the pods come to grips against whats left of your armour forces... Then your right they won't need ground troops... there already dead.

[VF5SS]

Plus zentradi have shotguns and missle launchers that take out veritechs.

Its Valkyrie, not Verytek. If you guys really want the full poop on the Zentradi, I'd ask around macrossworld.com's BBS or search for old threads. Look for a guy named Keith, he's the man to see.

[Darth_Shinji]

Plus zentradi have shotguns and missle launchers that take out veritechs.

Its Valkyrie, not Verytek. If you guys really want the full poop on the Zentradi, I'd ask around macrossworld.com's BBS or search for old threads. Look for a guy named Keith, he's the man to see.

Sorry, I did hit the RT version first and the name just stuck... even though I know the difference.

[VF5SS]

Its my job to annoy people about that

[Damaramu]

Heh, I was about to do the same, but VF5SS beat me to it.....

Robodrek.

And oh, Valkyries took out Zentraedi battle pods and other Zentraedi war machines with 55mm rounds.

[Durandal]

The point was that people were claiming that zentradi tech was inferior based on stuff they are not even sure about and thats why the CA would win... I pointed out that fact isn't always the case. I never called the e-woks piss-pour but their were a stone-age race.

With the immense advantages I listed.

Some artilly wouldn't be enought to take out all of the zents. Plus for all intents and purposes the zents are walking artillery pieces.

Except that they're not nearly armored enough to put up serious resistance to the AT-TE's. Simply bombarding them from long range with artillery fire that is equivalent to many tons of TNT exploding at their feet will clear out a sizable portion of them. Do this while moving backward (AT-TE's can move at about 40MPH), and you avoid the shorter-range fire of the enemy infantry while giving the fighters time to clear out the infantry, and you're fine.

First off pods can't fly in atmosphere. He made them equal ecept in terms of surport fire. Which in the zentradi's case is the entire army. homing missles should do the trick.

The pods can jump around in atmosphere, but 700 of the things vs. 50 gunships is a ridiculously high numerical advantage. Sure, the gunships have the micro-superlasers, homing missiles and all that other stuff, but a 14:1 ratio is pretty difficult to overcome.

Even so, the gunship's armaments are positively overkill for combating unshielded pods. It has:

3 anti-personnel turrets. Roughly 1 ton per shot.
2 mass drivers. Variable payload. 100 kiloton, concentrated blast warheads listed in ICS.
4 micro-superlasers. Roughly 100 tons per shot.
8 air-to-air missiles. Roughly 100 tons per warhead.

Each Delta-7 has two laser cannons capable of 1 kiloton per shot and shielding to match. The 72 Delta-7's would make short work of the 72 combat pods. I wouldn't expect the gunships to make it through the engagement, though. There are simply too many pods for 50 of them to overcome, even with vastly superior firepower. They don't have any shields. I wouldn't put it beyond reason that the Delta-7's could take out a good deal of the pods on their own, though, especially with Jedi behind the controls.

Ecept when the artilly is downed by return fire and the pods come to grips against whats left of your armour forces... Then your right they won't need ground troops... there already dead.

Don't kid yourself. If the forces started out right on top of each other, probably, but that doesn't happen in real ground battles.

[Crayz9000]

Each Delta-7 has two laser cannons capable of 1 kiloton per shot and shielding to match. The 72 Delta-7's would make short work of the 72 combat pods. I wouldn't expect the gunships to make it through the engagement, though. There are simply too many pods for 50 of them to overcome, even with vastly superior firepower. They don't have any shields. I wouldn't put it beyond reason that the Delta-7's could take out a good deal of the pods on their own, though, especially with Jedi behind the controls.

Actually... remember the LAAT carrying the Jedi to Dooku's hangar on Geonosis? There is no way in hell that it could have sat there without shields and soaked up the shots from the Geonosian fighters for as long as it did.

[Durandal]

That would make sense. Straight after Anakin and Obi-Wan got off of it, the two Geonosian fighters swept in and destroyed it, probably because its shields were down.

[Darth Wong]

Some artilly wouldn't be enought to take out all of the zents. Plus for all intents and purposes the zents are walking artillery pieces.

Do they have enough firepower to take down capships, or breach the shielding on an SPHA-T? None of the droid army's weapons could put a dent in an SPHA-T, and it couldn't have been due to targeting troubles; those things were huge.

Keep in mind that the SPHA-T is not a pulse weapon; it is a continuous beam weapon, which is equivalent to automatic-fire artillery. Did you see how they swept across the surface of the 700m wide Tradefed ship on takeoff?

Imagine an army of 3 story tall Zentraedi marching toward the clone army on that flat Geonosian terrain, and having the SPHA-T's sweep their beams through the Zentraedi ranks like a hot knife through butter.

Much blood will flow, but it won't be clonetrooper blood.

[Marcus]

Heh. I think weve got to give this one to the Clonetroopers, on pure technological difference.

Now... for amusements sake, lets make it Zentradi vs Clonetroopers, same tech level. Say, unarmed.