Thrawn or Palleon?

Darth Cronos the Proud · Post by **Darth Cronos the Proud** » 2006-01-20 12:23am

Here's the deal. I don't think this has been done before, but if it has go ahead a flame the crap out of me. Anyhow, here it goes. Who would you rather have leading your fleet (your fleet being of approx. equal size to your enemies): Thrawn just before his death (and the Noghri aren't going to kill him), or Palleon circa the end of the NJO/ beginning of the Dark Nest series?

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2006-01-20 12:25am

Neither, they both are numb nuts when it comes to strategy and tactics, AFAIK. Granted, they suffer from horrible writting, and a lot of fanwanking, but taken at a whole, both are unsuitable for command.

LongVin · Post by **LongVin** » 2006-01-20 12:27am

I would say Thrawn but then again most Imperial success comes from the Rebels/New Republics own stupidity.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2006-01-20 12:35am

Thrawn has the grasp of unusual tatics and is the less conventional of the two. Palleon has the better record and a much nicer relationship with his men which in turn means they have a much better flow. But Palleon would be my choice due to his lifetime's worth of experience and good tatics backed up with the one shot affairs Thrawn favored.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2006-01-20 12:37am

Pelleaon is a loser; he's just a survivor, and that's why he's so wanked out.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-01-20 12:44am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Pelleaon is a loser; he's just a survivor, and that's why he's so wanked out.

Wanked out? I don't recall anything about Pellaeon that was particularly "wanky". At least nothing compared to Thrawn.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-01-20 03:07am

Pelleaon is a criminal. If Daala was still alive, he'd be the SECOND worst military officer in the IR.

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2006-01-20 03:30am

Stark wrote:Pelleaon is a criminal.

Eh?

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2006-01-20 03:54am

Stark wrote:Pelleaon is a criminal. If Daala was still alive, he'd be the SECOND worst military officer in the IR.

When did she die as far as I know Daala is still alive though retired.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-01-20 07:43am

He called the retreat at Endor. He wasn't in command, or even next in command. His order lost the battle.

And I thought Daala got killed after her ridiculous attempts to be king. Oh well.

Sharp-kun · Post by **Sharp-kun** » 2006-01-20 07:49am

Stark wrote:He called the retreat at Endor. He wasn't in command, or even next in command. His order lost the battle.

While I don't disagree on the command issue, from what I recall the fleet wasn't exactly doing well and various ships had already fled.

Even with the Empire's superior forces were they actually going to win. given the chaos the Emperor's death and the loss of the DSII and Executor caused?

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2006-01-20 11:30am

Stark wrote:He called the retreat at Endor. He wasn't in command, or even next in command. His order lost the battle.

And I thought Daala got killed after her ridiculous attempts to be king. Oh well.

That crap first appears in the HttE-sourcebook from WEG. If there weren't other sources claiming the same i would call it misinformation or propaganda from the side of the NR.

Can the fact, that Pellaeon didn't leave the Chimera through the airlock without spacesuit be explained by his superiors deciding his actions at Endor were justified? I mean there were at least 25,000 ISDs and probabely millions of Commanders. The loss of one by execution shouldn't have hurt the empire that much at that point of time.

Tiriol · Post by **Tiriol** » 2006-01-20 11:40am

An exceedingly hard question: both are able tacticians and commanders and both have strategical skills matched only by the very best. Thrawn would have upper hand in both of them, though - but I still like the idea of Pellaeon as my commander better than having Thrawn as my commander. Pellaeon by the end of NJO did the best he could with the forces at his disposal and actually did defeat the Vong forces which had invaded Imperial Remnant and greatly contributed to the final victory over the Yuuzhan Vong. He also has that grandfather-like image going for him. Besides, he did conquer huge amounts of territory before the Hand of Thrawn duology using the meager resources of the Deep Core, although they were lost after long and arduous battles and reduced to that pitiful amount of sectors.

So my vote goes to Pellaeon. Sorry, Thrawn.

Fire Fly · Post by **Fire Fly** » 2006-01-20 12:15pm

Actually, an exceedingly easy question: one is a seasoned fleet commander with years and years and years of experience while one was a seasoned second in command of a Star Destroyer for years and years. Pellaeon is probably older than Thrawn, yet Thrawn had to start from the bottom himself when Parck brought him back to be trained and he exceeded far more quickly than Pellaeon. How many battles have Pellaeon retreated from? Far, far too many. Endor, Bilbringi, Yavin 4.

Both are able commanders, but to judge by their performances and histories, I'd give it to Thrawn.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2006-01-20 12:19pm

On the retreat at Endor Issue - why NOT retreat? The fleet was in dsiarray, the Emperor dead, the battlestation destroyed and you lost the Ground below so what point was there in staying and fighting. You pull out and come back to fight another day and destroy the rebels.

Palleaon was somehow supposed to divine that the Empire would tear itself apart as meticulously as it did right after Endor?

He gave the right order. Your fleet has lost cohesion and the initiative. Your totally on the defensive and you just lost your CINC and the main Objective you were supposed to be defending. There was no reason to stay and fight at that point when you have 25,000 ISD's waiiting for you back in your lines to come back and curbstomp these rebels.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2006-01-20 12:21pm

I think you guys are being unfair to Pellaeon. Sure he made mistakes when he was younger. However as an older commander we've seen him fight off a large Vong Battle Group and play their Commander like a fiddle. As others have said Pellaeon has not only more years experience than Thrawn, but he knows many of his tricks and gambits, plus as the Admiral of the GFFA Navy he'll have had the chance to compare notes with the very best of the Republican side.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2006-01-20 12:35pm

Not to forget, that Pellaeon was already commanding ships or small fleets during the clone-wars.

I still think him being SIC of an ISD at Endor is because he was blamed for the desaster at Merson (and the loss of a personal "friend" of the SupremeChancellor and later Emperor Palpatine).

Fire Fly · Post by **Fire Fly** » 2006-01-20 12:41pm

FTeik wrote:Not to forget, that Pellaeon was already commanding ships or small fleets during the clone-wars.

I still think him being SIC of an ISD at Endor is because he was blamed for the desaster at Merson (and the loss of a personal "friend" of the SupremeChancellor and later Emperor Palpatine).

Um, I don't ever recall Pellaeon serving in the Clone Wars. Do you have a source for that?

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2006-01-20 12:43pm

Fire Fly wrote:
FTeik wrote:Not to forget, that Pellaeon was already commanding ships or small fleets during the clone-wars.

I still think him being SIC of an ISD at Endor is because he was blamed for the desaster at Merson (and the loss of a personal "friend" of the SupremeChancellor and later Emperor Palpatine).
Um, I don't ever recall Pellaeon serving in the Clone Wars. Do you have a source for that?

Wasn't he in his 70's during the Thrawn Trilogy so he is definately old enough to have served. ROTS Novelization pegs Captain Needa having served during teh Battle of Coruscant. Remember the Clone wars were only about 18 years before ANH. A career military officer could easily have served during the clone wars during the NR Era.

Anguirus · Post by **Anguirus** » 2006-01-20 12:51pm

The Essential Guide to Characters says something like Pellaeon lying about his age to get in on the Clone Wars.

...of course, this is when they seemed to think the Clone Wars was forty years before ANH.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-01-20 03:16pm

Stravo wrote:
Fire Fly wrote:
FTeik wrote:Not to forget, that Pellaeon was already commanding ships or small fleets during the clone-wars.

I still think him being SIC of an ISD at Endor is because he was blamed for the desaster at Merson (and the loss of a personal "friend" of the SupremeChancellor and later Emperor Palpatine).
Um, I don't ever recall Pellaeon serving in the Clone Wars. Do you have a source for that?
Wasn't he in his 70's during the Thrawn Trilogy so he is definately old enough to have served. ROTS Novelization pegs Captain Needa having served during teh Battle of Coruscant. Remember the Clone wars were only about 18 years before ANH. A career military officer could easily have served during the clone wars during the NR Era.

There is a CW comic in which a man who looks very much like Pellaeon, named Pellaeon, command a task force. However, due to the age disparity, it is assumed he is Pellaeon's father or some other relation.

Edit: And I seem to recall him being younger in the Thrawn Trilogy, later 50's or something.

Darth Cronos the Proud · Post by **Darth Cronos the Proud** » 2006-01-20 03:27pm

I seem to remember in one of the EU books Palleon remembering that as a child seeing Darth Vader in a parade, and Vader walking up to him, putting his hand on Palleon's shoulder and saying "I see great things for you." or something of that nature. I can't for the life of me remember what book, but I think it might have been in the Thrawn trilogy (can't remember what the name of the trilogy is, but it's the one where he first appears.)

If this is true, and not some figment of my imagination, then he couldn't possibly have been old enough to serve in the clone wars. But this can be chalked up to bad continuity before the release of the pequels.

Post by **Kuja** » 2006-01-20 03:33pm

Darth Cronos the Proud wrote:I seem to remember in one of the EU books Palleon remembering that as a child seeing Darth Vader in a parade, and Vader walking up to him, putting his hand on Palleon's shoulder and saying "I see great things for you." or something of that nature. I can't for the life of me remember what book, but I think it might have been in the Thrawn trilogy (can't remember what the name of the trilogy is, but it's the one where he first appears.)

If this is true, and not some figment of my imagination, then he couldn't possibly have been old enough to serve in the clone wars. But this can be chalked up to bad continuity before the release of the pequels.

That happened to a different man and the flashback was in The Courtship of Princess Leia.

Darth Cronos the Proud · Post by **Darth Cronos the Proud** » 2006-01-20 03:37pm

Kuja wrote:That happened to a different man and the flashback was in The Courtship of Princess Leia.

Thanks, now I remember. Was it Warlord Zinge(sp)?

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2006-01-20 03:42pm

Darth Cronos the Proud wrote:
Kuja wrote:That happened to a different man and the flashback was in The Courtship of Princess Leia.
Thanks, now I remember. Was it Warlord Zinge(sp)?

Actually it was an intellegence officer working for Zingi.