Well, I'm about done on the other (christian based) forum.

[Magnetic]

For the second time in as many days, I was belittled, disrespected by two of the more prominent christians on that board. For "loving christians", they definitely had some pretty sour things they said to me, . . . and all basically because I don't believe the same as they do!

The last one (I had asked what the purpose would be for God to create stars more than 6,000 - 10,000 light years away) basically stopped short of calling me stupid and "answered" with the "he's God and you're not" response.

When I come onto THIS site, I expect to receive some redicule from time to time (heck it may even be required), but not on a place like that!!

Here's the thing, . . . they're all so tired of athiest, non-christians, AND NON-YEC-ers debating them on certain topics, that they have decided to no longer allow any thread having to do with creation vs. evolution, YEC vs. OEC, topics that refute the flood, Genesis 1, or the like. In other words, anything outside of protestant christianity is no longer allowed.

If they want their "good-ol'-boys club", . . . well, they got it.

[Surlethe]

Isn't it wonderful having an inquisitive mind in the midst of people for whom inquisition means "Forcefully convert through torture"?

[SirNitram]

Sorry you had to see the ugly reality of some people.

[Justforfun000]

Of course Christian based boards try to look like they are open minded and invite debate, but as soon as they are pushed too far against the wall, they know that they can't refute anymore and they bring up the IWOL.

Ultimately they can only rest their position on the wish to believe that somehow their faith based material is real no matter what evidence might say to the contrary. In other words, irrationality has to be admitted when truly backed up against the wall.

They are getting angry on that board because people hate to admit to being irrational even when they know it's true.

[Lord Zentei]

Here's the thing, . . . they're all so tired of athiest, non-christians, AND NON-YEC-ers debating them on certain topics, that they have decided to no longer allow any thread having to do with creation vs. evolution, YEC vs. OEC, topics that refute the flood, Genesis 1, or the like. In other words, anything outside of protestant christianity is no longer allowed.

If they want their "good-ol'-boys club", . . . well, they got it.

So: they have basically thrown in the towel as far as debating is concerned. If I were any less of a cynic, I might consider that a good thing.

[LadyTevar]

Here's the thing, . . . they're all so tired of athiest, non-christians, AND NON-YEC-ers debating them on certain topics, that they have decided to no longer allow any thread having to do with creation vs. evolution, YEC vs. OEC, topics that refute the flood, Genesis 1, or the like. In other words, anything outside of protestant christianity is no longer allowed.

If they want their "good-ol'-boys club", . . . well, they got it.

So: they have basically thrown in the towel as far as debating is concerned. If I were any less of a cynic, I might consider that a good thing.

It's not throwing in the towel, it's denying there's a problem. After all, out of sight = out of mind.

[Magnetic]

I even told one of the mods that such a stance looks like a concession. It doesn't look good when you close debates after someone posts a very damning piece of evidence, evidence as to why there could be no water mantle enough to flood the earth, or waters below the surface, or *cough* giant ice ball hitting the earth.

It's just sad. I definitely am not a fundi any longer, that's for sure!

You know, there is another thread where many good people are making good argument against ET (eternal torture) in Hell for a more merciful UR (universal reconciliation), and they have been talked down to, insisting on the 'truth' of "the lake of fire". I was one that was posting against ET. It was one if the instances where I was rediculed. Interesting how that works out, huh? It almost seems like that MORE fundamentalist you are, the less humane you become.

[Zero]

It almost seems like that MORE fundamentalist you are, the less humane you become.

If God is always right, and humanity exists only to serve him, then there's no purpose in being humane, unless it suits the wishes of this God fellow. I imagine it must be a position primarily motivated by fear, hence the obsession with eternal torture.

[wautd]

Chin up Magnetic, us liberal evil atheists still love ya

[Magnetic]

Chin up Magnetic, us liberal evil atheists still love ya

But, you're not capable of something good like that!!

Thanks for the "chin up", wautd. I'm feeling less agitated today, and perhaps I shouldn't let such things get to me. Just the words of a couple of simple minded humans.

[wautd]

Chin up Magnetic, us liberal evil atheists still love ya

But, you're not capable of something good like that!!

Thanks for the "chin up", wautd. I'm feeling less agitated today, and perhaps I shouldn't let such things get to me. Just the words of a couple of simple minded humans.

I just received word that the gays are still "behind" you as well (seriously, better watch your six)

[Lord Zentei]

So: they have basically thrown in the towel as far as debating is concerned. If I were any less of a cynic, I might consider that a good thing.

It's not throwing in the towel, it's denying there's a problem. After all, out of sight = out of mind.

I was being sarcastic, of course.

I can only wonder how far this self segregation will go.

It almost seems like that MORE fundamentalist you are, the less humane you become.

If God is always right, and humanity exists only to serve him, then there's no purpose in being humane, unless it suits the wishes of this God fellow. I imagine it must be a position primarily motivated by fear, hence the obsession with eternal torture.

I take it you have heard of Fred Phelps?

[Magnetic]

Chin up Magnetic, us liberal evil atheists still love ya

But, you're not capable of something good like that!!

Thanks for the "chin up", wautd. I'm feeling less agitated today, and perhaps I shouldn't let such things get to me. Just the words of a couple of simple minded humans.

I just received word that the gays are still "behind" you as well (seriously, better watch your six)

Uh oh! . . . . . .

Actually, my wife worked with a lesbian and we've done things together (my wife and I, along with her co-worker and her partner) on a few occations. They're very nice people.

[CarsonPalmer]

One of the arguments people use for eternal torture, not very logical sound, is the argument of limited human understanding. God is by definition perfect, so anything God does is right. Humans are by definition imperfect, and anything God does that appears wrong is merely us not being able to understand him. As you can see, it is not a strong argument.

[Zero]

One of the arguments people use for eternal torture, not very logical sound, is the argument of limited human understanding. God is by definition perfect, so anything God does is right. Humans are by definition imperfect, and anything God does that appears wrong is merely us not being able to understand him. As you can see, it is not a strong argument.

I tried to explain to my cousin why this was flawed. I tried to explain to her that there's no physical reality that dictates moral values to us, so moral values are primarily a matter of taste. Even if there is a God, his notion of right and wrong aren't any better than my own. I also tried to explain to her that this was an argument against an all-loving God, since he could supposedly dictate the physical laws of the universe, and since if he loved us, we shouldn't have to die, hurt, experience loss, be imperfect, etc., etc.. On a fundie like her, it was all disreguarded; in her mind, it doesn't matter if I can be logically right, because I'm still the one going to hell.

[SirNitram]

Eh, you could always suggest she actually read Genesis.

You know, the Christian myth which explicitly shows Good and Evil don't come from God, but from a tree.

[Zero]

Eh, you could always suggest she actually read Genesis.

You know, the Christian myth which explicitly shows Good and Evil don't come from God, but from a tree.

That's knowledge of good and evil. The two are apparently the same thing, but if you truly believe that there's something independant of personal preference that dictates morality, than knowledge of good and evil aren't the same. My personal favorite to prove God isn't good is Isaiah 45:7

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

That one confuses fundies sometimes, since the bible must always be correct. If God says he's evil in the bible, then it has to be true!

[wolveraptor]

A better example of God being capable of evil would be where God repents of the evil he was about to do. It was the part when he wanted to slaughter everyone because they worshipped a golden calf but Moses was like, "Dude, chill out. Let's just kill 3000 of 'em." It basically proves that God's actions are not always good.

[General Zod]

A better example of God being capable of evil would be where God repents of the evil he was about to do. It was the part when he wanted to slaughter everyone because they worshipped a golden calf but Moses was like, "Dude, chill out. Let's just kill 3000 of 'em." It basically proves that God's actions are not always good.

Or the part where he asked some old guy to sacrifice his first born son, then at the last minute went "Ha ha! Just kidding. No need to sacrifice him for me."
Or the other part where he puts Job through tons of crap just because Satan said he'd stop being so devout if he didn't have his fortunes.

[wolveraptor]

None of those occaisions has God explicitly admitting his evil bastard nature, so naturally, fundamentalists will say that since God isn't bound by human ethics, it was okay.

[Surlethe]

None of those occaisions has God explicitly admitting his evil bastard nature, so naturally, fundamentalists will say that since God isn't bound by human ethics, it was okay.

Even if God admitted an evil, bastard nature, fundies would still say God isn't bound by human ethics, and would redefine evil to not include God's evil.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Eh, you could always suggest she actually read Genesis.

You know, the Christian myth which explicitly shows Good and Evil don't come from God, but from a tree.

And to think there's such a thing as forest conservation...the fools.

[chaoschristian]

For the second time in as many days, I was belittled, disrespected by two of the more prominent christians on that board. For "loving christians", they definitely had some pretty sour things they said to me, . . . and all basically because I don't believe the same as they do!

The last one (I had asked what the purpose would be for God to create stars more than 6,000 - 10,000 light years away) basically stopped short of calling me stupid and "answered" with the "he's God and you're not" response.

When I come onto THIS site, I expect to receive some redicule from time to time (heck it may even be required), but not on a place like that!!

Here's the thing, . . . they're all so tired of athiest, non-christians, AND NON-YEC-ers debating them on certain topics, that they have decided to no longer allow any thread having to do with creation vs. evolution, YEC vs. OEC, topics that refute the flood, Genesis 1, or the like. In other words, anything outside of protestant christianity is no longer allowed.

If they want their "good-ol'-boys club", . . . well, they got it.

Ahhh, the joys of feeling the Bible-Hammer as it smashes against your head, delivered with love and righteousness by your brothers and sisters in Christ.

I know the experience.

If that forum is truly dominated and ruled by YECs, then walk away and never return - it seems you've already made that decision.

On a Christian forum I fequent I asked the following question: if your beliefs in the origins of man and creation were irrefutably falsified to the fulness of your satisfaction (that is, you would not/could not doubt the outcome) how would it effect your faith?

The OECs and TEs basically responded that it wouldn't effect their faith so much as make them ask questions the nature of creation.

The YECs however categorically stated that they would lose their faith in God.

YECs aren't orthodox Christians in the traditional sense, in my experience, because they directly link their faith and salvation to a literal creation and an indicative interpretation of scripture. Both of these fall outside of traditional orthodoxy.

[wautd]

A better example of God being capable of evil would be where God repents of the evil he was about to do. It was the part when he wanted to slaughter everyone because they worshipped a golden calf but Moses was like, "Dude, chill out. Let's just kill 3000 of 'em." It basically proves that God's actions are not always good.

Or the part where he asked some old guy to sacrifice his first born son, then at the last minute went "Ha ha! Just kidding. No need to sacrifice him for me."
Or the other part where he puts Job through tons of crap just because Satan said he'd stop being so devout if he didn't have his fortunes.

Or harden Pharoa's mind so he could kill every first born kid

[The Grim Squeaker]

["devils" advocate mode]

Or the part where he asked some old guy to sacrifice his first born son, then at the last minute went "Ha ha! Just kidding. No need to sacrifice him for me."

As opposed to the average deity worshiped at the time that did have Human sacrifice (Of the first born son, often as a baby).

Or the other part where he puts Job through tons of crap just because Satan said he'd stop being so devout if he didn't have his fortunes.

Didn't he give him a new family and fortune after all that
[/"devils" advocate mode]
One thing to note was that the bible generally had God as far more merciful when compared to other gods, meaning that in the day of baby sacrifices a god who only faked the request to check loyalty would be an extremely merciful one compared to let's say Bal.
(Although the classic "El" had deadly punishments, but that was for a small group of desert nomads, so yet again it's merciful compared to the day).
Doesn't mean that it's merciful these days (treating a slave well was a merciful act a century or three ago (Compared to skinning a slave alive for a slight), but these days having a slave is a evil act no matter how well you might treat him)