Saruman vs. Count Dooku

FaxModem1 · Post by **FaxModem1** » 2002-12-19 04:24pm

Q has some fun and puts Saruman and Count Dooku on a planet all by themselves to duke it out until the other is dead, whoever loses, gets destroyed by Q. SO they will fight each other.

Who wins?

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2002-12-19 04:34pm

Saruman is stronger than Gandalf the Grey
Gandalf the Grey is even with a Balrog.

So, stick Dooku on the bridge against the Balrog and see what happens

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2002-12-19 04:36pm

Yogi wrote:Saruman is stronger than Gandalf the Grey
Gandalf the Grey is even with a Balrog.

So, stick Dooku on the bridge against the Balrog and see what happens

"Come, join me, and together we can overthrow Sauron."

FaxModem1 · Post by **FaxModem1** » 2002-12-19 04:38pm

So, everyone thinks Dooku would be beaten by his doppleganger?

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2002-12-19 04:41pm

Saruman's fighting abilities did not impress me.

Oberleutnant · Post by **Oberleutnant** » 2002-12-19 05:17pm

Saruman wins. After all, he is almost an immortal being.

Subnormal · Post by **Subnormal** » 2002-12-19 06:16pm

Yoda lives to be 900 years old If you ask me thats practicly imortal too. Dooku would "Destroy the" old white beard, staff-toter. Lets do a comparision.

Dooku:

Choops off foes arms.
Force lightnings them off the ground an into walls.
Easily defeats two trained combatants with ONE lightsaber.
Controls a band of inept battledroids and Stupid Nemodians.
Skilled with a Lightsaber.
Defeats a Rabid Bouncing Green monkey.
Can force throw objects wheighing hundreds of pounds.
Takes orders from a powerful but small character to movie plot.
Acts nice to good character then backstabs them.

Saruman:

Forces Foe to twirl in the middle of the floor then forces him upward into ceiling.
Lets foe out to suffer in Elements.
Controls an inept Army of Urk Hai and Stupid Wormtongue.
Fights another old longbeard Staff-toter.
Takes orders from a powerful but small character to movie plot.
Can control weather.
Acts nice to good character then backstabs them.

Hmmm Telekinetic powers probably won't decide this match I bet it will come down to "Their skills with a light saber."

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2002-12-19 06:21pm

You forget that Saruman is from a race of god-like beings. You also forget that Saruman > Gandalf the Grey >= Balrog > A couple thousand goblins. To get a furthur sense of scale, when Gandalf killed the Balrog, the final blow crumbled part of a mountain.

I am, or course, taking from the book Saruman, and not the movie.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2002-12-19 06:23pm

The problem is Saruman probably has other spells at his disposal. I know that gandalf, is capable of teleportation, and conjuring fire(and that is just what we see) Saruman is stronger than him. His spells of death are probably far more impressive(must see LOTR to get a look at gandalf's power)

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-12-19 06:27pm

countdooku wrote:Yoda lives to be 900 years old If you ask me thats practicly imortal too. Dooku would "Destroy the" old white beard, staff-toter. Lets do a comparision.

Dooku:

Choops off foes arms.
Force lightnings them off the ground an into walls.
Easily defeats two trained combatants with ONE lightsaber.
Controls a band of inept battledroids and Stupid Nemodians.
Skilled with a Lightsaber.
Defeats a Rabid Bouncing Green monkey.
Can force throw objects wheighing hundreds of pounds.
Takes orders from a powerful but small character to movie plot.
Acts nice to good character then backstabs them.

Saruman:

Forces Foe to twirl in the middle of the floor then forces him upward into ceiling.
Lets foe out to suffer in Elements.
Controls an inept Army of Urk Hai and Stupid Wormtongue.
Fights another old longbeard Staff-toter.
Takes orders from a powerful but small character to movie plot.
Can control weather.
Acts nice to good character then backstabs them.

Hmmm Telekinetic powers probably won't decide this match I bet it will come down to "Their skills with a light saber."

The magic fight in the movie was distinctly unmagical because the director doesn't like visual magic stuff. It said so on the DVD. Therefore, basing it just off of TK as the only combat magic Saruman knows is inaccurate. The book is a better source.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2002-12-19 06:33pm

Yogi wrote:You forget that Saruman is from a race of god-like beings. You also forget that Saruman > Gandalf the Grey >= Balrog > A couple thousand goblins. To get a furthur sense of scale, when Gandalf killed the Balrog, the final blow crumbled part of a mountain.

I am, or course, taking from the book Saruman, and not the movie.

Didn't Gandalf 0WZ0R3D him when he threw him out of King Theoden?

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2002-12-19 07:09pm

Durandal wrote: Didn't Gandalf 0WZ0R3D him when he threw him out of King Theoden?

That was Gandalf the White. Later in the book, he faces Saruman in a re-match and trashes the hell out of him.

However, the Gandalf that fought the Balrog and Saruman (the one I used) was Gandalf the Grey, a weaker version.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-12-19 07:34pm

What? I thought it was the same Gandalf...

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2002-12-19 08:24pm

It is, he is just more powerful

Skelron · Post by **Skelron** » 2002-12-19 08:34pm

The fight with the Balrog was a purification of Gandalf, in many ways he was reborn afterwards, in D+D terms he gained about 10 levels, and he was already at epic level....

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2002-12-19 08:43pm

Saruman wins.
Force pushes Dooku into wall. Dooku tries to lightning, staff stops lightning. Saruman tells Dooku he has a bad name and his dialog is practically self derivative. Dooku is taken aback for a second. Saruman then sets a rabid green jedi monkey on dooku.

Gambler · Post by **Gambler** » 2002-12-20 01:34am

Count Dooku.
He takes Saruman's staff with the force, and cuts his arms off.

Graeme Dice · Post by **Graeme Dice** » 2002-12-20 01:45am

His Divine Shadow wrote:What? I thought it was the same Gandalf...

He was reborn as Gandalf the white and replaced Saruman in that position who now became Saruman the many-coloured instead of the White. His robes still look white, but a closer inspection reveals that they are actually made up of constantly shifting colours IIRC.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-12-20 03:55am

Gambler wrote:Count Dooku.
He takes Saruman's staff with the force, and cuts his arms off.

Saruman has TK ability as well. At least, going by the movie. He did a force pull type thing on Gandalf's staff remember?

I doubt it would be that easy.

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2002-12-20 11:00am

Perhaps I didn't make myself completely clear.

1) Saruman = Minor God
2) Dooku = Sith Lord
3) Read the BOOK to find out how powerful they are, not the movie.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-20 11:05am

Gandalf didn't face off against Saruman again, did he?

All that happens in the book is that he calls Saruman out and snaps his staff.

D.Turtle · Post by **D.Turtle** » 2002-12-20 11:06am

Gandalf and Saruman can NOT Teleport.
Not even the VALAR can Teleport.

D.Turtle · Post by **D.Turtle** » 2002-12-20 11:08am

Hmm, pressed that submit button to early ...

Gandalf is not > a couple of thousand of Goblins.
In "The Hobbit" Gandalf was almost killed by some Goblins and Wolves.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-12-20 11:25am

I have read the the Lord of the Rings twice now. Can someone tell me exactly where Gandalf 'crumbles a mountain when defeating the Balrog' in the book? I seem to have missed that part.

And D. Turtle is right, in the Hobitt, Gandalf was nearly killed by a pack of wolves, but the Eagle swooped him out of a tree. Mind you this is from Bilbo's POV, so we don't know whether or not Gandalf could have actually survived.

Oh and Saruman does not 'control the weather' in the novels this wasn't shown, and in the DVD commentary it is stated that all the 'spells' that were used; river, mountain and counter mountain. This was the characters urging the river to release a flood, or the mountain to wake up, or go back to rest. Either way, I don't see how this could be a relevant tactic if this was meant to be a face to face encounter.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2002-12-20 03:44pm

Has this topic not been covered before?

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