Wing Commander tech

[Darksider]

i am relativly unfamilliar with the WC universe and i would like to know how it's technology rates with that of other sci-fi series

[Alyeska]

i am relativly unfamilliar with the WC universe and i would like to know how it's technology rates with that of other sci-fi series

It has some of the best fighters and carriers in scifi. They have good weapons, nice capabilities, and relatively large fighter compliments on their ships. However their capitalship combat capabilities are somewhat lacking.

[Darksider]

i know about the ships classes and the great fighters (hellcats are the best) what i want to know is how do they stack up in terms of shielding and firepower to say imperial ships

[Alyeska]

i know about the ships classes and the great fighters (hellcats are the best) what i want to know is how do they stack up in terms of shielding and firepower to say imperial ships

Their fighters are for the most part superior, but their capital ships and capitalship weaponry are typically inferior.

[Darksider]

thanks for filling me in

[papachulo10]

Hey guys i am a newbie to this board. I found this little guy from my comrades in the B5tech board.

I have also been an ardent wing commander fan from the beginning.

First of all my favorite fighter is the hellcat(i assume you are talking about the hellcat V which makes a cameo in both the 3rd and 4th installments) yet it is by no means the best.

The confed Vampire and Panther completely outclass the ol Cat. Not to say that the Cat can still dish is out to the err....CATS. lol.

The wing commander capshiops are more like modern day vessels, as is their fleet structure. They rely on specialized vessels with specialized support vessels. The midway and the vesuvius are the epitome of carrier design, with the midway emphasizing survivability and the vesuvius emphasizing pure fighter and bomber carrying capacity.

I am not too sure about their power in the toe to toe slugging matches. I am quite sure that a plunkett can take care of itself, yet one must recognize the fact that all vessels in the confed navy are probbably made to be used in conjunction with a fighter wing. Kinda like a symbiotic relationship.

Well i hope this helps and if you want more information on WC just check out www.wcnews.com. That is where i get my info.

[Darksider]

by best i ment coolest

[papachulo10]

Well it is kinda subjective.

Personnaly i think the coolest spaceship to takes to the stars is the Omega class destroyer.

I know people who think the Imperial stardestroyer, minbari sharlin, or the original Enterprise are the coolest.

It just depends.

Personally i like em the best. They don't look too practical, yet they look cool enough to kick ass.

[Bob McDob]

i know about the ships classes and the great fighters (hellcats are the best) what i want to know is how do they stack up in terms of shielding and firepower to say imperial ships

Confed ships are generally faster and better armed than their Imperial counterparts, but have slightly less shielding and armor.

Now, if it's STAR WARS Imperial ships you're talking about, well, all I know that the CapShip missile things used in Fleet Action to devastate planets were 500MT a pop, laced with Strontium-90. Those things turned many a planet into a barren, wasted hellhole.

Not as awesome and terryfying as melting the planet, and even a Tallahassee cruiser carries less armament than one of the Republic troop carriers, but still ...

I am not too sure about their power in the toe to toe slugging matches. I am quite sure that a plunkett can take care of itself, yet one must recognize the fact that all vessels in the confed navy are probbably made to be used in conjunction with a fighter wing. Kinda like a symbiotic relationship.

Considering they do carry fighters ... (half-squadron of older Tigersharks, but still).

[papachulo10]

The plunkett and almost all other of the WC ships are made to be used in conjuntion with a carrier most of the time.

Kinda like a battle group.

[Vympel]

In Wing Commander 2 the Concordia (Confederation-class Dreadnought) had one Gilgamesh-class Destroyer as escort. This can be explained I guess because the Concordia's a Dreadnought.

[rant] WHY THE FUCK DID THEY BLOW UP THE CONCORDIA IN BETWEEN WC2 AND 3![/rant]

In Wing Commander 3 the Victory (what class?) had an extremely big escort force- a pair of Destroyers (what class?) and one cruiser (what class?)

In Wing Commander 4 both the Lexington (Concordia-class) and the Border Worlds ship you defect to (can't remeber the name) have no escorts ... peacetime? The St Helens and Vesuvius have no escorts either.

In Wing Commander Prophecy the Midway had no escorts (perhaps coz it's a megacarrier)

In the Secret Ops the Cerebus has no escorts (because it's a spec ops cruiser)

[Darksider]

i think the border worlds frigate in WC$ is called a durango class

[papachulo10]

The class is called the durango.

Yet the ship is called the Intrepid.

[Bob McDob]

In Wing Commander 2 the Concordia (Confederation-class Dreadnought) had one Gilgamesh-class Destroyer as escort. This can be explained I guess because the Concordia's a Dreadnought.

The cruiser escort TCS Vanguard was destroyed right before Blair joined the crew.

[rant] WHY THE FUCK DID THEY BLOW UP THE CONCORDIA IN BETWEEN WC2 AND 3![/rant]

A humongoenormous fleet of Kilrathi supercarriers attacked Earth and blew the hell out of ConFleet and the Concordia ... she was badly damaged and relegated to patrols, where an Imperial fleet ambushed and destroyed it.

[pointless digression: The Confederations are based very heavily on the Concordia-class carriers]

In Wing Commander 3 the Victory (what class?) had an extremely big escort force- a pair of Destroyers (what class?) and one cruiser (what class?)

Ranger-class TCS Victory escorted by TCS Sheffield and Coventry destroyers (class unknown) and Tallahassee-class cruiser TCS Tallahassee.

[quote In Wing Commander 4 both the Lexington (Concordia-class) and the Border Worlds ship you defect to (can't remeber the name) have no escorts ... peacetime? [/quote]

The Lexington occasionally had escorts, we just never see them . . . that and Paulson liked running the Lex in front of them.

The Intrepid (Durango-class destroyer with part of the main hull replaced with a hangar) had several frigates during major offenses ... most of the time there simply weren't enough ships to go around.

The St Helens and Vesuvius have no escorts either.

The Vesuvius has many escorts during the losing endgame of WCIV ... the Vesuvii in SO were ambushed out of spacedock.

In Wing Commander Prophecy the Midway had no escorts (perhaps coz it's a megacarrier)

Also because it was a shakedown cruise.

In the Secret Ops the Cerebus has no escorts (because it's a spec ops cruiser)

[papachulo10]

Another wing commander nut like me. I thought we were a dying breed.

Tell me what is your favorite carrier. That is the ultimate WC along with what is your favorite fightter or if you liked Hobbes.

The ranger or concordia class ships take my vote. When i talk about the concorida class i am refferring to the lexington. Which i am qute sure is a concordia class. Although this is a radically different configuration than we saw in previous wc games. Perhaps this is due to the construction of a new class of ships that takes the older name.

Alas another thing that i must look up.

[BenRG]

Another wing commander nut like me. I thought we were a dying breed.

We're not dead... Not yet anyway, although that damn movie killed a lot of us.

Tell me what is your favorite carrier. That is the ultimate WC along with what is your favorite fightter or if you liked Hobbes.

I loved the 'Intrepid' in WC4. Probably because it didn't look like an aircraft carrier with a roof on the flight deck. It was the first in the CD-movie-era WC games that looked like it was designed to be a spacecraft.

My favorite fighter has always been the Excalibur, although the Dragon in WC4 comes a close joint second with the 'Bloodfang' custom heavy fighter from WC3.

I loved the character of Hobbes. I even wrote an alternate ending where Cobra is the traitor on the 'Victory' rather than Hobbes. It was such a shame, seeing such a wonderfully three-dimensional character turn out to be a black hat.

I would like to see a WC 'shell' game where you can download missions for a carrier group without any running storyline. You can chose a late-Kilrathi War Confederation carrier group, a post-war Confed carrier group, a post-war Border Worlds carrier group or a Prophecy-era carrier group.

My ideal carrier group:
Durango-class carrier

• 2 squadrons, Arrow-class point interceptors
• 2 squadrons, Banshee-class GP fighters
• 1 squadron, Dragon-class heavy fighters
• 1 squadron, Longbow-class torpedo bombers
• 1 squadron, Excalibur-class recon fighters

Tallahassee-class cruiser
2 destroyer-class destroyers
2 Caernarvon-class frigates

Before anyone comes telling me how much better the stuff in WCP is, I have never played it, so I can only judge on the stuff in WC3 and WC4.

[Vympel]

The cruiser escort TCS Vanguard was destroyed right before Blair joined the crew.

Indeed, I forgot about that.

A humongoenormous fleet of Kilrathi supercarriers attacked Earth and blew the hell out of ConFleet and the Concordia ... she was badly damaged and relegated to patrols, where an Imperial fleet ambushed and destroyed it.

I know ... the surprise attack is detailed in the instruction manual but it's no excuse for destroying the most powerful ship in the fleet without even us getting to fly in its defense

pointless digression: The Confederations are based very heavily on the Concordia-class carriers

Don't you mean the Concordia-class is based heavily off the Confederations? As it is I've always had trouble buying that. They look nothing alike. Any redesign of a Confederation-class to a Concordia would involve MASSIVE changes.

Ranger-class TCS Victory escorted by TCS Sheffield and Coventry destroyers (class unknown) and Tallahassee-class cruiser TCS Tallahassee.

Alright then. In my fanfics I'd often just call the destroyers sheffield-class and thec cruiser ajax-class

The Intrepid (Durango-class destroyer with part of the main hull replaced with a hangar) had several frigates during major offenses ... most of the time there simply weren't enough ships to go around.

My memory sucks, do we ever see a Durango-class Destroyer? The Border World fleet sucked ass

The Vesuvius has many escorts during the losing endgame of WCIV ... the Vesuvii in SO were ambushed out of spacedock.

I never played the losing endgame- silly me.

Also because it was a shakedown cruise.

Helluva shake down cruise!

[Bob McDob]

I know ... the surprise attack is detailed in the instruction manual but it's no excuse for destroying the most powerful ship in the fleet without even us getting to fly in its defense

There's also some background in the Armada Voices of War manual and Fleet Action.

Blair was wounded in the Battle of Terra and spent several months in an infirmary ... that's how he survived. Every major ship Blair ever flew on during the war with the exception of the Victory was later destroyed ... and the Victory only survived because the war ended before it could get the crap beat out of it any more.

Don't you mean the Concordia-class is based heavily off the Confederations? As it is I've always had trouble buying that. They look nothing alike. Any redesign of a Confederation-class to a Concordia would involve MASSIVE changes.

The Concordia-class precedes the Confederation, we see several in Action Stations ... in 2634 ... they're by far the most heavily produced carrier class.

And because Blair mentions how the Concordias remind him of the Confederations it seems logical the two have similar insides.

[BenRG]

The Intrepid (Durango-class destroyer with part of the main hull replaced with a hangar) had several frigates during major offenses ... most of the time there simply weren't enough ships to go around.

My memory sucks, do we ever see a Durango-class Destroyer? The Border World fleet sucked ass

I thought that the Durango-class was a fleet carrier (admittedly a less advanced one than the Lexington, but a carrier nontheless). If it was a converted destroyer, it was a huge one. That landing bay was about the size of the old Victory, if my memory serves.

One of the big problems with judging WC technology is that the art 'style' of the games changed massively in WC3 and never looked back. The ships are all conceptually different, more geometric and simpler, probably for ease of graphical generation in the spaceflight sequences.

[Bob McDob]

One of the big problems with judging WC technology is that the art 'style' of the games changed massively in WC3 and never looked back. The ships are all conceptually different, more geometric and simpler, probably for ease of graphical generation in the spaceflight sequences.

A Confederation was originally planned for WC4, but was dropped due to curves.

[Vympel]

The Concordia-class precedes the Confederation, we see several in Action Stations ... in 2634 ... they're by far the most heavily produced carrier class.

And because Blair mentions how the Concordias remind him of the Confederations it seems logical the two have similar insides.

Confederation-class is newer? That doesn't make much sense. What's 'Action Stations'?

The continuity is all fucked up. From WC1-2 we see clear continuity in the ship design- the Tiger's Claw and Concordia look like they would serve together. Then WC3 comes along and everything from the previous games is out the window. The Victory looks nothing like the previous vessels- in neither design nor color scheme. For example, and you never see a Waterloo/ Gilgamesh class vessel again, never mind another Confederation-class Dreadnought.

I would've liked it if they would've put more thought into the game and actually tried to join WC1-2 and WC3 up in some way. Seeing a Confederation-class in game alongside the Ranger-class would've been a nice step.

Where does Blair say that the Concordia reminds him of the Confederation class?

[Vympel]

A Confederation was originally planned for WC4, but was dropped due to curves.

Curves?

[Enlightenment]

One of the big problems with judging WC technology is that the art 'style' of the games changed massively in WC3 and never looked back. The ships are all conceptually different, more geometric and simpler, probably for ease of graphical generation in the spaceflight sequences.

This is because WC switched from a bitmap-based graphics engine to a polygon-based graphics engine in WC3. Polygon-based realtime graphics engines couldn't render the earlier, rounder, styles of WC ships at anything resembling an acceptable framerate. To look half decent, most of the early WC ships would require meshes of between 20K and 60K polys, and it's only recently that graphics boards have been capable of painting the 200K+ polys per frame necessary if the player had a fair number of ships in his FOV at the same time.

[Vympel]

Origin should do a remake of WC1-3. New canon.

[Bob McDob]

Confederation-class is newer? That doesn't make much sense. What's 'Action Stations'?

. . .

I'm sorry, that's so incredibly hilarious, excuse me for a moment ... That's better.

Action Stations is the prequel novel to Wing Commander, taking place in 2634 before the start of the war. It covers the Battle of McAulliffe and cadet Tolwyn's early career. It also has all sort of fun tech stuff like shield-burster torpedo specifics and a 60KT fusion warhead downing the McAullife skyhook.

In it, a TCS Concordia is destroyed. Since it's established the Ranger is an ancient design (dating back to 2579 at least) it seems logical the Concordia is the next step in capital ship evolution.

It's a hypothesis - but it's a very, very good hypothesis. (That, and the originator does background work for whatever Wing Commander project comes up - he even has Aaron Allston's scetches for the nixed Privateer TV series, but that's another story).

The continuity is all fucked up. From WC1-2 we see clear continuity in the ship design- the Tiger's Claw and Concordia look like they would serve together. Then WC3 comes along and everything from the previous games is out the window. The Victory looks nothing like the previous vessels- in neither design nor color scheme. For example, and you never see a Waterloo/ Gilgamesh class vessel again, never mind another Confederation-class Dreadnought.

Well, this might interest you ...

I would've liked it if they would've put more thought into the game and actually tried to join WC1-2 and WC3 up in some way. Seeing a Confederation-class in game alongside the Ranger-class would've been a nice step.

Like I said, they tried, but the Confederation has several thousand more polys than the engine could handle.

Where does Blair say that the Concordia reminds him of the Confederation class?

It's a fairly large subtext in the WCIV novel ... he goes on about how the Lexington is the same class as the Concordia and he has nightmares about Angel sleeping in her ready room ...

Origin should do a remake of WC1-3. New canon.

They tried that with Super Wing Commander - remember? Not very productive ... (It might have been more so if they'd released it for the PC, but they probably thought it was too radical).