shields on the death star?

Darth Tanner · Post by **Darth Tanner** » 2006-04-03 07:57am

Hi all
I searched for this but couldn’t find any so sorry if its already covered

Why does the death star (both 1 & 2) appear to have no shields?

The X-Wings in ANH were able to strafe its surface and do significant damage to the surface gun emplacements, the only hint of a shield being the "magnetic field" that the fighters pass harmlessly through, which I guess is just a natural electromagnetic field present with such large metal objects as they passed through it quite some distance away from the death star.

In ROTJ they put its shield on a nearby moon, which makes sense during the construction phase but why not put planetary grade shields on the actual death star itself

Planetary shields are supposed to be invincible to orbital bombardment, even to SSDs as shown on Hoth and also during the Black Fleet Crisis so why didn’t they fit them onto the death star, it would have been indestructible to everything other than other death stars and torpedo spheres.

Oh and the point about fighters being able to fly through shields and fight under them, well at Endor Lando orders the rebel fighter swarm to pull up when they realise the shields are still up, I assume to avoid impact, also if fighter could fly through the shields what was the point of the land mission to nock out the shields.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2006-04-03 08:05am

Remember Dodonna saying that the Empire did not feel a small snub fighter was not a THREAT or they'd have a tighter defense? In the Death Star 1 it has shielding that was not fully enclosing it. if fired at by a capitol ship the shields would have stopped the attack but small fighters could, if flying slow enough, slip inside through the seams of the shields. While straffing the surface they mention deflection towers. Those towers are projecting the Death Star's shields.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2006-04-03 08:30am

What natural electromagnetic field?
Isolder74 covered the DS1 pretty much, so I'll just add that the DS2 was not yet complete? Its own shield generators had simply not been mounted yet.
'Don't tell me. Tuesday.'

evangelion1 · Post by **evangelion1** » 2006-04-03 08:31am

maybe not. deflection is a part of some forms of gunnery and those towers could have been for the targeting systems of the turbolasers and whatnot

Darth Tanner · Post by **Darth Tanner** » 2006-04-03 08:41am

when the rebels are flying towards the death star i think its red 1 says "we are passing through the magnetic field" i assumed this was just like a planets magnetic field, either a result of building on such a scale and power or a device to keep the area clean of random radio noice & such
either that or they needed some speech to make the scene more invigorating

AK_Jedi · Post by **AK_Jedi** » 2006-04-03 09:42am

evangelion1 wrote:maybe not. deflection is a part of some forms of gunnery and those towers could have been for the targeting systems of the turbolasers and whatnot

In star wars, deflection seems to be a terms associated with shielding. For example, Han Solo says "angle the deflectors, we'll try to hold them off."

Nightbringer · Post by **Nightbringer** » 2006-04-03 12:30pm

The second death star's defences are more effecient in the sense that the shield generator cannot be destroyed from space, however, the defences on the Endor base were poor because of the fact that a small rebel force (with the help of a few teddy bears

) were able to penatrate it.

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2006-04-03 12:39pm

The shield projected from Endor was not intended to be the main shield, do you think they designed the DS2 to tug the forest moon around with it? The Endor generator was not part of the stations design.

I find it odd that the Death Stars would have no shields, however I have seen no evidence in the films or anywhere else to suggest they had their own. Isolder74, what are you basing your idea on? I've never seen anything to the extent of what you are suggesting, and your idea makes little sense. Why would they have gaps between the shields? Such a setup is not used in planetary defenses, with which the easiest parrallel can be drawn.

Nightbringer · Post by **Nightbringer** » 2006-04-03 12:43pm

I did not think that the shield projected from endor was the real shield, I had just concluded that it was better defensively because it prevented the Death Star being destroyed from space straight away, if the Empire had set up a better defence for the base on Endor I think the Rebels would have failed in their attempt to destroy it.

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2006-04-03 12:51pm

But what we are discussing here is the defensive capabilities of the Death Stars, specifically their inherent deflector shield capabilities, and since the Endor shield is not a design aspect of the DS2, it isn't relevant.

Nightbringer · Post by **Nightbringer** » 2006-04-03 12:55pm

Yes, but the Endor shield is directly linked to the defensive capabilities of the second Death Star, it is actually a more effecient method of defence than the first death star.

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2006-04-03 01:02pm

Oh. My. God. Do you really think that tugging a forest moon around with the battlestation because a shield generator is mounted on it is an effective method of defense? Do you not think that perhaps if the DS2 had been finished the imps might not have just put other similar generators on the battlestation itself?

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2006-04-03 01:59pm

For an analogy, The Death Star I's Shield were set up like the parts of a Rubic's Cube. The shield is effective at stopping an attack but there are not overlapping. where the sections meet. there is a small area where the shield is not there. to small to target with a turbolaser but just big enough to let a few small snub fighters sneak underneath.

Back to the rubic's cube. the cube is solid but you can slip a playing card into the joints.

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2006-04-03 02:02pm

And where is this idea from exactly?

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2006-04-03 02:04pm

Lazarus wrote:And where is this idea from exactly?

I beleive the tiny squares on the DS plans as they zoom in on it and the image goes under them(the squares).

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-04-03 02:29pm

Isolder74 wrote:
Lazarus wrote:And where is this idea from exactly?
I beleive the tiny squares on the DS plans as they zoom in on it and the image goes under them(the squares).

Additionally, some (if not all) planetary shields function in that way, like Bothawui's in VotF.

AK_Jedi · Post by **AK_Jedi** » 2006-04-03 02:54pm

A couple ideas on the DSII shield:

1: The shield generators were as of yet, unfinished. This idea seems unlikely considering how much of the DS was finished. Perhaps some parts were finished, but there were large enough gaps to get fighters through.

2: The shields were finished, but they did not have enough time to raise them before the fighters attacked. We don't know how long it takes to raise shields from a cold start on that scale, and the fighters closed very quickly. Also, the DS was concentrating on picking off cap ships with its superlaser, which would have been a major power drain.

Instant Sunrise · Post by **Instant Sunrise** » 2006-04-03 03:02pm

So the DS1 shield was designed to have pores in it so that cap-ships could not get in, but it would let Turbolasers out? Works for me. I assumed that the DS2 shield was the SW equivalent of a scaffold or construction fence. Not designed for permanent use, just until the DS2 is finished with construction.

As for built in Shield on the DS2, it seems more likely that the generators were delivered and were in place, but had not been actually installed, nor fully tested before being put into operational use. The DS2 was already late and overbudget, it is likely that Moff JJerjerrod had to move a lot of personnel to getting the superlaser operational first, and THEN to finish the other systems, like the shields.

Darth Tanner · Post by **Darth Tanner** » 2006-04-03 03:27pm

there is a small area where the shield is not there. to small to target with a turbolaser but just big enough to let a few small snub fighters sneak underneath.

I dont understand how a ship cant fire a turbolaser through a gap a fighter can fly through

assuming a fighter is 2m tall thats quite a big hole to target
the only explanation is that ships cant target the holes in shields very effectively (which i believe is one of the unique strengths of the torpedo spheres) but this raises the problem of how the fighters know where the holes are

i think the only explanation is that either

a) the fighters flew through the shield (episode 1 style) which raises the question of how far out the shield layer is (i originally thought shields hugged the hull) if it was too far out big ships could fly through and blast at the DS with the weapons anyway

b) Tarkin didnt bother raising the shield for 20 odd fighters due to arrogance and lack of miltary background

also id imagine that generating a shield over an entire moon costs a lot of electricity and thus money which a politician like tarkin is more concered about

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2006-04-03 03:29pm

The DS1 had to have a shield. We know this because the hemisphere of it that was facing Alderaan was not reduced to cratered slag. Which pretty much leaves the option that small shielded craft, traveling deliberately slowly, who had access to the plans for the thing, were able to exploit a design oversight.

Nightbringer · Post by **Nightbringer** » 2006-04-03 04:02pm

Lazarus wrote:Oh. My. God. Do you really think that tugging a forest moon around with the battlestation because a shield generator is mounted on it is an effective method of defense? Do you not think that perhaps if the DS2 had been finished the imps might not have just put other similar generators on the battlestation itself?

No, but for the time it was being built it was a good method of defence, my point was that the base on Endor should have been protected to a greater extent. I am perfectly aware that the defences for the Death Star 2 might have been far greater than the first had it been finished.

Soontir C'boath · Post by **Soontir C'boath** » 2006-04-03 04:27pm

Nightbringer wrote:
Lazarus wrote:Oh. My. God. Do you really think that tugging a forest moon around with the battlestation because a shield generator is mounted on it is an effective method of defense? Do you not think that perhaps if the DS2 had been finished the imps might not have just put other similar generators on the battlestation itself?
No, but for the time it was being built it was a good method of defence, my point was that the base on Endor should have been protected to a greater extent. I am perfectly aware that the defences for the Death Star 2 might have been far greater than the first had it been finished.

Getting off topic here:

1. They didn't expect the local population(Ewoks) to do anything. If it wasn't for C-3PO, they would have never made it into the equation.
2. The rebel strike team was easily dealt with as we've seen them captured.

They're defense was fine and the fight was on the Imperial's side until Chewie captured an AT-ST.

According to the ANH novel p. 190

"We're passing through their outer shields. Hold tight. Lock down freeze-floating controls and switch your own deflectors on, double front." "Cut the chatter, Blue Two," Blue Leader ordered. "Accelerate to attack velocity."

Which indicates there were more shields projected from the DS. I'd guess they may be layered on top of one another since they were ordered to accelerate to attack velocity after a few moments of passing the outer and then therefore inner shields.

Once the fighters were past the shields, their weapons would undoubtably do damage to the hull as we've seen them do in the movie.

Nightbringer · Post by **Nightbringer** » 2006-04-03 04:37pm

Soontir C'boath wrote:
Nightbringer wrote:
Getting off topic here:

1. They didn't expect the local population(Ewoks) to do anything. If it wasn't for C-3PO, they would have never made it into the equation.
2. The rebel strike team was easily dealt with as we've seen them captured.

Agreed, but would shouldn't the Empire have anticipated a shock and prepared a greater defence, I know that they handled the Rebels no problem, but look what happened to the Death Star 1, the Emperor was convinced that it was the ultimate weapon yet a 1 man fighter was able to destroy it? Perhaps the Empire should have prepared a greater defence for the base itself, because it was depending on the safety of the new Death Star, which was considered of huge importance by the Emperor.

Soontir C'boath · Post by **Soontir C'boath** » 2006-04-03 04:48pm

Nightbringer wrote:Agreed, but would shouldn't the Empire have anticipated a shock and prepared a greater defence, I know that they handled the Rebels no problem, but look what happened to the Death Star 1, the Emperor was convinced that it was the ultimate weapon yet a 1 man fighter was able to destroy it? Perhaps the Empire should have prepared a greater defence for the base itself, because it was depending on the safety of the new Death Star, which was considered of huge importance by the Emperor.

Why bother wasting any more resources than you have to? The planet was protected by the shield so no enemy bombardment or troop deployments would be possible nevertheless the fact that there's a fleet defending the system. Ewoks seemed to have left the Imperials relatively alone and not considered much of a danger especially when they can lock the Ewoks out of the bunker if they needed to.

They had no reason to put more than they thought they needed.

Post by **Surlethe** » 2006-04-03 04:53pm

Soontir C'boath wrote:They had no reason to put more than they thought they needed.

As an addendum, they had good reason not to put more than they thought necessary, I think; the second Death Star's construction was kept absolutely secret, and the Alliance only learned about it because the Emperor permitted them. If they had employed more than necessary, the chances of information leaking would have been correspondingly greater, thus injuring the Emperor's control over how the rebels received information and what information the rebels received.