'Gospel of Judas' to be published

[Bounty]

Beeb

Judas Iscariot's reputation as one of the most notorious villains in history could be thrown into doubt with the release of an ancient text on Thursday.

The Gospel of Judas, a papyrus document from the 3rd or 4th Century AD, tells the story of Jesus' death from the fallen disciple's point of view.

Alleged to be a copy of an even older text, it casts Judas as a benevolent figure, helping Jesus to save mankind.

The early Christian Church denounced such teachings as heretical.

The 31-page fragile document, written in the Coptic language, was discovered in Egypt in the 1970s.

National Geographic Magazine in the US is to publish the first English translation of the text on Thursday.

Breakaway sect

For 2,000 years Christianity has portrayed Judas as the treacherous apostle who betrayed his divine master with a kiss, leading to his capture and crucifixion.

According to the Bible, Judas received 30 pieces of silver for the act, but died soon afterwards.

But the Gospel of Judas puts Judas in a positive light, identifying him as Christ's favourite disciple and depicting his betrayal as the fulfilment of a divine mission to enable the crucifixion - and thus the foundation of Christianity - to take place.

This view is similar to that held by the Gnostics - members of a 2nd Century AD breakaway Christian sect, who became rivals to the early Church.

They thought that Judas was in fact the most enlightened of the apostles, acting in order that mankind might be redeemed by the death of Christ.

As such they regarded him as deserving gratitude and reverence.

Gnostic writers are believed to have set down their contrasting account of Judas' role in Greek in about 150AD, and some believe that this manuscript may be a copy of that.

Records show that the leaders of the early Christian Church denounced that version as heretical in about 180AD.

The Gospel of Judas was found near Beni Masar in Egypt.

In 2000, the Maecenas Foundation for Ancient Art in Basel Switzerland took possession of the document and translation began soon afterwards.

National Geographic struck a publication deal with the foundation last year, thought to have cost $1m (£570,000).

In addition to the magazine article, the National Geographic TV channel will be running a special two-hour documentary on the manuscript on Sunday 9 April.

If this is legit, it's an interesting look at the early church.

[Archaic`]

It's a pity that so many of the early texts were suppressed and/or destroyed. It's interesting to see how the pictures they present can differ dramatically from the accepted version of the church presented in the bible.

[Mange]

Isn't this the same Gospel of Judas that first was up for sale in some hotel room?

[Lagmonster]

There was probably shitloads of random text published by early Christians; it would be odd if every dude with a secret mushroom stash didn't write down his own visions. Unfortunately, for some reason they stuck with the violent shit in Revelations and Paul's unbelievable diatribes. One can only wonder what a slightly different political climate would have arranged for in terms of the development of the fledgling religion.

[Mange]

According to CNN, the papyrus has been determined to be from around 300 CE:

CNN article

[Flagg]

I've always thought that (assuming the Gospels are accurate as to the events surrounding the days before and up to the crucifixion are remotely accurate) Jesus gave Judas the order to turn him in to the Romans.

[God Fearing Atheist]

One can only wonder what a slightly different political climate would have arranged for in terms of the development of the fledgling religion.

I dont understand this. The intellectual triumph of Orthodoxy over its competition seems to have occurred mostly (though not entirely) independent of political help.

True, there were a goodly number of heretical sects floating around that continued up to the reign of Constantine. It is also true that Constantine, in a manner typical of late Roman emperors, exiled their leaders and banned their holy scripture to promote Orthodox conformity. But why conformity to Orthodoxy and not, say, Arianism? Why wasnt the creed accepted by the synod of Bishops at Nicaea, for example, Marcionite gnostic instead?

We need to look no further than church historian Socrates (HE 1.8 ) for the answer (emphasis is mine):

This [Orthodox] creed was recognized and acquiesced in by three hundred and eighteen [bishops]; and being, as Eusebius says, unanimous is expression and sentiment, they subscribed it. Five only would not receive it, objecting to the term homoousios, `of the same essence,' or consubstantial: these were Eusebius bishop of Nicomedia, Theognis of Nice, Maris of Chalcedon, Theonas of Marmarica, and Secundus of Ptolemaïs.

I think the moral of the story is twofold: plurality of doctrines does not mean any of these doctrines were widely held, and Orthodoxy did not win because of political help, but got political help because it had already won.

Or maybe I didnt get your point and typed this all for nothing

[Civil War Man]

I've always thought that (assuming the Gospels are accurate as to the events surrounding the days before and up to the crucifixion are remotely accurate) Jesus gave Judas the order to turn him in to the Romans.

There was a documentary about Judas on the History Channel a few years ago that brought this, and other points mentioned in the OP, up. Running on the assumption that the general story of the gospels is true, there are a few interesting topics that get raised.

For example, the 30 pieces of silver. Depending on what denomination of silver coin Judas was paid with, he could have received the equivalent of a few weeks to several months worth of pay for the average laborer. It'd be like if you arrived in town with a group of friends and someone in the mayor's staff paid you $6,000 cash up-front for a chance to talk to one of your more well-known friends.

[God Fearing Atheist]

I've always thought that (assuming the Gospels are accurate as to the events surrounding the days before and up to the crucifixion are remotely accurate) Jesus gave Judas the order to turn him in to the Romans.

Hows that?

I mean, taking the gospels as entirely or almost entirely accurate history, you might be able to make this sort of case. Its not exactly the impression they give, but you could argue it.

If we take the Passion Narratives as containing roughly equal parts history and theological commentary or a bit more of the former than latter (as I do), it becomes much, much more difficult. Frankly, I dont see how we can historically say much more about Judas than "he was a member of the Twelve" and "he betrayed Jesus."

But I am known to be wrong from time to time.

[AK_Jedi]

The musical, "Jesus Christ Superstar" presents the story somewhat from the perspective of Judas. In that story, Judas decides to betray Jesus because he thinks that Jesus has lost perspective, and has gotten too into himself. Afterwards, he realizes what he has done, and kills himself.

I've never really understood why Judas is such a villian. Afterall, the crucifixition story requires his character in order to work. If Jesus is not betrayed, he can't be crucified, and the whole dying for our sins thing just doesn't happen. So from that perspective, Judas is really the hero who helps bring about Jesus' sacrifice, and the other disciples are the real villains for trying so hard to stop it.

[Skylon]

The musical, "Jesus Christ Superstar" presents the story somewhat from the perspective of Judas. In that story, Judas decides to betray Jesus because he thinks that Jesus has lost perspective, and has gotten too into himself. Afterwards, he realizes what he has done, and kills himself.

I've never really understood why Judas is such a villian. Afterall, the crucifixition story requires his character in order to work. If Jesus is not betrayed, he can't be crucified, and the whole dying for our sins thing just doesn't happen. So from that perspective, Judas is really the hero who helps bring about Jesus' sacrifice, and the other disciples are the real villains for trying so hard to stop it.

The more I think about the disciples, the more I get sour about them (and I know I'll be thinking this again as I sit through another easter sermon).

They deny knowing Jesus when the Romans come for him, they mostly aren't there when he's crucified, it seems likes they got scared shitless by their cult leader getting executed, then went into hiding for awhile to figure out how the heck to put a good spin on it and carry on their beliefs without looking like cowards.

[Flagg]

I've always thought that (assuming the Gospels are accurate as to the events surrounding the days before and up to the crucifixion are remotely accurate) Jesus gave Judas the order to turn him in to the Romans.

Hows that?

I mean, taking the gospels as entirely or almost entirely accurate history, you might be able to make this sort of case. Its not exactly the impression they give, but you could argue it.

If we take the Passion Narratives as containing roughly equal parts history and theological commentary or a bit more of the former than latter (as I do), it becomes much, much more difficult. Frankly, I dont see how we can historically say much more about Judas than "he was a member of the Twelve" and "he betrayed Jesus."

But I am known to be wrong from time to time.

Because the logical conclusion of Jesus's mission in Jesrusalem was to be crucified to fulfill his destiny. "One of you will betray me" can easily be taken as an order, rather than as a prophetic statement. Frankly, it makes sense.

[mr friendly guy]

But the Gospel of Judas puts Judas in a positive light, identifying him as Christ's favourite disciple and depicting his betrayal as the fulfilment of a divine mission to enable the crucifixion - and thus the foundation of Christianity - to take place.

.

Jesus : Hey Judas, I need to betray me so I can get crucified and do the dying for humanity's sins and all that. It will only destroy your reputation, but hey, saving humanity from daddy's wrath is more important.

Judas : Why don't you, oh I don't know, just give yourself up to the Roman authorities?

Jesus : Shut the fuck up and just follow your orders. Our organisation does not encourage thinking.

[SAMAS]

I've always thought that (assuming the Gospels are accurate as to the events surrounding the days before and up to the crucifixion are remotely accurate) Jesus gave Judas the order to turn him in to the Romans.

Hows that?

I mean, taking the gospels as entirely or almost entirely accurate history, you might be able to make this sort of case. Its not exactly the impression they give, but you could argue it.

If we take the Passion Narratives as containing roughly equal parts history and theological commentary or a bit more of the former than latter (as I do), it becomes much, much more difficult. Frankly, I dont see how we can historically say much more about Judas than "he was a member of the Twelve" and "he betrayed Jesus."

But I am known to be wrong from time to time.

Because the logical conclusion of Jesus's mission in Jesrusalem was to be crucified to fulfill his destiny. "One of you will betray me" can easily be taken as an order, rather than as a prophetic statement. Frankly, it makes sense.

At least, it explains why, during the Last Supper, when Jesus flat-out pointed out that it would be Judas, it didn't trigger an immediate beatdown.

[Steven Snyder]

Jesus : Shut the fuck up and just follow your orders. Our organisation does not encourage thinking.

I am now convinced this is genuine.

[Civil War Man]

Because the logical conclusion of Jesus's mission in Jesrusalem was to be crucified to fulfill his destiny. "One of you will betray me" can easily be taken as an order, rather than as a prophetic statement. Frankly, it makes sense.

Interestingly, another speculation that fits in with the "Judas is the most loyal disciple" argument is actually concerning Judas's suicide. Back in those days, when a king died, his chief shield-bearer would be killed in order to follow his liege into the afterlife.

I know, it's mostly bullshitting, but I personally like that version better than the actual Gospels.

[Pick]

I like this version better, not that I ever cared for any of them. I always thought Judas got a bad reputation for merely doing as he seemed fated to do.

[Patrick Degan]

Well, look at it from this perspective: Jesus is clearly angling for a messianic finish to his self-appointed mission, and needs it to happen in the most public way imaginable. Simply turning himself in to the Roman garrison won't guarantee that —it's equally likely they'll either dismiss him as a crank or simply flog him, and in any case the Romans don't give two shits about blasphemy against the Jewish religion, do they? That's the Sanhedrein who are all worked up about the issue. At the same time, some part of him actually wants to live so he can't bring himself to directly set his own death in motion. He needs a proxy to do it, and perhaps some part of him is hoping that his chosen "betrayer" will puke-out on the whole thing ("let this cup pass").

As for why Judas-as-unmitigated-villan became the version accepted as canon, consider that this fits in better with the Manichean worldview which Christianity appropriated to itself. It also avoids unpleasant considerations that Jesus' fulfillment of his messianic destiny essentially depended upon an act of suicide. Not exactly the most inspiring message to give to the troops you're counting on to convert all those heathens at sword-point, now is it?

[SAMAS]

You'd think that, but some radical muslims seem to have proven otherwise.

[Ypoknons]

[musical]Jesus Christ, Superstar, how do we know what they say you are?[/musical]

[Mark S]

The articale in my local paper about this quotes the text of the scroll as indeed saying that Judas was singled out by Jesus as the top deciple and that he had to be the betrayer, even though they both knew he would be shit on. I'll just write out these quotes as they appear in the article.

"You will be cursed by the other generations - and you will come to rule over them"

"You will exceed all of them. For you will sacrifice the man that clothes me"

"Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of the kingdom"

"Look, you have been told everything. Lift up your eyes and look at the cloud and the light within it and the stars surrounding it. The star that leads the way is your star."

It would be interesting to see how these fit in context.

[Dooey Jo]

I bet the gospel will go something like this:
Judas is Jesus' best disciple. Jesus says: "You will betray me"; Judas: "But I don't wanna!"; Jesus: "You must, I can't fucking betray myself, now can I? Now go and betray me!".
Judas goes away, muttering "fine, just don't blame me afterwards. Bloody Christ", and betrays Jesus. [there is a short comment that he immediately gave away the thirty pieces of silver for charity]
Jesus dies and Judas is sad, but everyones hates him. They say "Judas, you fucking bitch, fuck you", and Judas can't take all the bullying so he goes away and hangs himself.

But then he realises that he cannot die, and God says to him:
"Fuck you Judas, you got Jesus killed!"
Judas says: "Not you, too! And besides, he told me to do it!"
Judas seems to hear Jesus' voice in the distance: "Nuh-uh, did not! Dad, who are you going to believe, him or your own son?", and God says:
"Uhh... No he didn't! And you'd think I'd know, considering we're the same person and all..."
And Judas: "What?"
God: "Yeah, that never made much sense to me either. No matter! For your sins (and they were indeed many), I condemn you to walk the earth as an immortal!", in the background is heard: "Har har harr good one"
Judas: "Sonovabitch..."
God: "Yes. Now go away and bemoan your awful fate! Toodaloo!"
And as the holy ghost departs, Judas shakes his fist and whispers: "Damn you, Jesus! Blarg!"

And then no-one lived happily ever after and Judas became the first emo person. Thus endeth the Gospel of the Judas; the greatest disciple of the Jesus, the Christ.


Yeah... I'd read that Bible

[Cao Cao]

I've always reasoned that Judas being the evil villian stems from the inspiration from the Osiris myth.
If Jesus is Osiris, he who is reborn from death then we need a Set, the betrayer. Congratulations Judas, you win! You're Set.

[Rye]

I've always thought that (assuming the Gospels are accurate as to the events surrounding the days before and up to the crucifixion are remotely accurate) Jesus gave Judas the order to turn him in to the Romans.

Hows that?

I mean, taking the gospels as entirely or almost entirely accurate history, you might be able to make this sort of case. Its not exactly the impression they give, but you could argue it.

If we take the Passion Narratives as containing roughly equal parts history and theological commentary or a bit more of the former than latter (as I do), it becomes much, much more difficult. Frankly, I dont see how we can historically say much more about Judas than "he was a member of the Twelve" and "he betrayed Jesus."

But I am known to be wrong from time to time.

Doesn't Jesus say to Judas "go do what you must do" at the last supper, then he leaves to go turn him in?

[PrinceofLowLight]

It could be theorized that, taking the crucifxion as a ritual by Jesus and the disciples, the seeming betrayal is symbolic. From what I understand, play-acting, including taking the role of an archetype (such as "The Betrayer) is a big part in a lot of ceremonial magic.

Assuming it's not all bunk to begin with, of course.