Most powerful Star Trek power UNDER IMPERIAL RULE

[Sidewinder]

I searched to see if a similar topic was hosted within the past year, and found none. Here goes...

Thrawn, while mapping the Unknown Regions, discovers the Star Trek universe. Being mindful of efficiency and resource management, he decides to recruit respective the Star Trek powers by bringing them under Imperial rule. His fleet engages a Star Trek fleet and annihilates it except for a few captured officers, to whom Thrawn offers this ultimatum:

"I offer your people membership in the Galactic Empire and, possibly, representation in our government. Join us, and you'll receive generous trade advantages, economic aid, the protection of our fleet, and technology transfers to give you access to weapons and military equipment to let you dominate over this... quadrant.

Reject this offer and your species will be exterminated, your worlds irradiated and rendered inhabitable except for the droids we'll send to strip-mine it for resources.

Choose wisely."

When the captured officers are released back to their respective Star Trek government's custodies, which governments will accept Thrawn's offer? (There's no need to say what'll happen to those who reject it; we already know the Empire will dominate any and all Star Trek powers.) Will Thrawn find them useful in helping him subjugate the other Star Trek powers? Which species will be more successful as Imperial Army/Navy recruits?

[Utah Jak]

Before I vote I need a few more details...
1. Is this before or after the Dominion War?
2. Is Palpatine still Emperor?

[Sidewinder]

Before I vote I need a few more details...
1. Is this before or after the Dominion War?

Let's have Thrawn begin his campaign shortly before the events depicted in 'Star Trek: Nemesis'. Shinzon has not yet taken control over the Romulan Star Empire, but if Thrawn finds out about the clone, he might offer Shinzon the support of his fleet.

2. Is Palpatine still Emperor?

Let's set this between 'Return of the Jedi' and 'Heir to the Empire'.

[Utah Jak]

Let's have Thrawn begin his campaign shortly before the events depicted in 'Star Trek: Nemesis'. Shinzon has not yet taken control over the Romulan Star Empire, but if Thrawn finds out about the clone, he might offer Shinzon the support of his fleet.

Ok that helps alot. Thanks

Let's set this between 'Return of the Jedi' and 'Heir to the Empire'.

Well, that eliminates Palpatine sending in a New Order True Believer and automatically pushing humanity and maybe some near-humans to the top no questions asked. Given that information I'd say the Romulans. They are pragmatic, scheming and willing to do alot to gain power. The Romulans will leap at the chance to rule the Milky Way Galaxy, even if they are nothing more than lapdogs.

Thrawn being Thrawn would make use of the Vorta, especially their cloning tech though.

[PREDATOR490]

Dominion - Quite Useful

Disposable Army creation
Large area of space
Various specific technologies - Cloning
Militaristic Expansionists - indirect/direct

UFP - Useful

Large amount of technology
Large amount of knowledge - scientific, military etc.
Large area of space

Romulans - Useful

Varius Specific technologies - Cloak, Phase Cloak
Political & espionage skills
Militaristic Expansionists - non direct by default

Cardassian - Useful

Militaristic
Similarities in methods

Ferengi & Klingons - Useless

- No technological distinctiveness
- No useful military applications
- No useful domestic applications

[Utah Jak]

Problem with the Cardassians is that their power was absolutely shattered during the Dominion War. I'd wager that the Cardies would just want to be left alone to rebuild.

[PREDATOR490]

Problem with the Cardassians is that their power was absolutely shattered during the Dominion War. I'd wager that the Cardies would just want to be left alone to rebuild.

That makes them more useful since the Empire would probably get their backing alot better if they help rebuild and put Cardassians back on their feet.
The Cardassians arent to twitchy about using the nastier side of technology with the use of things like Dreadnaught Missile and biogenic weapons. So I think they wouldnt be too bothered about what the Empire might do.

Cardassians are somewhat useful but every race has its good points and bad points.

[Utah Jak]

Problem with the Cardassians is that their power was absolutely shattered during the Dominion War. I'd wager that the Cardies would just want to be left alone to rebuild.

That makes them more useful since the Empire would probably get their backing alot better if they help rebuild and put Cardassians back on their feet.
The Cardassians arent to twitchy about using the nastier side of technology with the use of things like Dreadnaught Missile and biogenic weapons. So I think they wouldnt be too bothered about what the Empire might do.

Cardassians are somewhat useful but every race has its good points and bad points.

True, if the Empire helped to rebuild the Union, the Cardassians would be very loyal to the Empire. However, based on the post-Dominion War situation, the Romulans have a much better foundation to place themselves in a position of real power.

[PREDATOR490]

... However, based on the post-Dominion War situation, the Romulans have a much better foundation to place themselves in a position of real power.

Well if this is before Nemesis then the Romulans are pretty weak internally and alot of infighting goes on. The senate got wiped out and Shinzon goes to the top without much of an eye blink from the local population.

So if the Empire makes a deal with the leader, that leader could get assassinated the next day and have the next leader go the completely opposite direction.

Remans are relatively poor compared to the Dominion soldiers. We are talking about Remans who were pretty much beaten by the Enterprise and the captain alone.

The Romulans themselves are self serving and highly distrustful. Sisko was able to turn them against the Dominion with the death of 1 guy. Leaving the Empire with a potentially risky race who may turn on them when it becomes "convieniant".
Since the Romulans prefer to play cautiously then they become rather dangerous if you are working with them. If the Romulans spot a weakness in the Empire then your almost guranteed that the Romulans will play on every advanatage and chance they get.
Perhaps even to the point where they can break from the Empire and oppose them. although that is rather extreme.

Personnally, I would prefer to keep the Romulans at a discreet distance and prevent them from gaining a powerbase which could threaten the Empire's intrests.

Post Dominion War, I would put the Federation as the best race to ally with. They are militarily weak but they do have the largest span of control with lots of their little toys.
The Federation are bound by their rules and follow it rather heavily so as long as the Empire dosent play heavy handed tactics and plays nice... the UFP would most likely welcome the support.

Being massively explorative in nature gives a good advantage to the Empire as they can use that knowledge to go up against other powers or take advanatage of the various things the Federation has found.

[Bounty]

The Romulans themselves are self serving and highly distrustful. Sisko was able to turn them against the Dominion with the death of 1 guy.

The death of Vreenak made Sisko's claim of a Dominion plot against Romulus more credible. The senator himself was expendable, but his assasination made the senate believe that the evidence planted by Sisko *was* real and not a forgery.

Will join the Empire (assuming they can retain some autonomy and remain the sole authority on their own worlds) :

Star Empire
UFP
Ferengi (seriously. Adding another *galaxy* as a market ? It's any Ferengi's wet dream)

Might consider it but probably won't :

Cadrassian Union (under normal circumstances they'd do it but after the surge of patriotism at the end of the DW and with the memory of their alliance with the Dominion fresh in mind, it's doubtful)

Dominion (yes, they hate all solids, but they'll gladly conquer/join those who can help them secure their territories. The Cardassian debacle might make them nervous, though)

Won't do it, no matter what :

Klingons. To them, the Empire is just the Hur'q Mk II

[Lagmonster]

I'd always presumed from the movies that the Empire was naturally xenophobic and would treat anything other than the humans of the UFP with disdain at best and slavery at worst.

[Teleros]

I'd go for the UFP - they're the most powerful ST civilisation (god knows why I might add), and their influence (not to mention their technology) should go some ways towards bringing the rest of the Alpha Quadrant into line.

[NecronLord]

I'd go for the UFP - they're the most powerful ST civilisation (god knows why I might add), and their influence (not to mention their technology) should go some ways towards bringing the rest of the Alpha Quadrant into line.

Err. No, the Dominion could spank the UFP up one side and down the other if they could get at them. There's a reason the DS9 writers had to resort to WRATH OF GOD in order to save the Federation. The Borg, also, could kill them with trivial ease.

[Teleros]

Err. No, the Dominion could spank the UFP up one side and down the other if they could get at them. There's a reason the DS9 writers had to resort to WRATH OF GOD in order to save the Federation. The Borg, also, could kill them with trivial ease.

Good point with the Dominion (suppose I'm too Alpha Quadrant-focused ). As for the Borg - maybe if they were next door neighbours, other than that I'm not so sure - Janeway did a lot of damage to them for example.

Oh well, I see your point. Still, I think my reasons are still ones to consider - replicators, teleporting clone troops (would Thrawn worry about souls and all that? Heck what about teleport-cloning?) and the political influence of the Feds would come in handy...

[NecronLord]

Until Janeway boned them, the Borg were a threat. Until Luke Skywalker boned them, so were the Empire.

[Darth Fanboy]

I believe the Ferengi would fare the best of the groups mentioned since they would bend over backwards so that they could profit from Imperial domination. They aren't going to resist with any military might nor are they going to turn down a potential new market in the Imperial's home galaxy.

THe UFP, Klingons, and Dominion will be too resistant to be of use and it is possible that the subjugation and pacification campaigns will leave many worlds useless and populations devastated.

The Cardassians and Romulans are another story. The Cardassians would make an excellent first example, and only the Federation would even consider sending aid. I think Thrawn, after careful evaluation would find the Romulans quite duplicitous and that would probably limit the extent of Romulan/Imperial relations.

Neglected from the listing is the Breen, who I think would actually be more useful than the nations' listed. The Breen's naked teritorial ambition with a proven military effectiveness plus a proven willingness to collaborate with a foreign power if the rewards are great enough would give them my vote.

[Cao Cao]

I'd always presumed from the movies that the Empire was naturally xenophobic and would treat anything other than the humans of the UFP with disdain at best and slavery at worst.

From the movies, Leia is xenophobic.

[Noble Ire]

I'd always presumed from the movies that the Empire was naturally xenophobic and would treat anything other than the humans of the UFP with disdain at best and slavery at worst.

Yes and no. Palpatine was himself a supreme pragmatist in this regard, and elevated and tolerated anyone who could get him more power and longevity, alien and human alike. However, since he gave many of his top officers pretty much free reign as long as they served well, and many of them were human supremists, alien presecution, enslavement, and on the Outer Rim even extermination became commonplace. However, after Palpatine's death, as these individuals began to lose authority, more even-minded figures like Thrawn and Pellaeon (and even Daala, actually, at least in that respect) made the Empire increasingly receptive to alien populations.

In the selected time period, anti-xeno sentiment would be high, but none of the Imperial warlords would have to resources extra to turn down new potential crewers, especially not Thrawn, who was an alien himself.

[Stark]

Can anyone point at a scene in the movies and say 'see? Xenophobic'. Because I've never in twenty years of watching SW movies seen it.

[Cao Cao]

Can anyone point at a scene in the movies and say 'see? Xenophobic'. Because I've never in twenty years of watching SW movies seen it.

Most people would point to the prison guard on the Death Star who says "Where are you going with that... thing?" in reference to Chewie.

When they do I like to point out Leia's "Get that walking carpet out of my way!" line, also in reference to Chewie.

And I think the word of Leia Organa, top leader in the Rebellion has more impact that John Nobody, prison guard.

[Darth Fanboy]

Can anyone point at a scene in the movies and say 'see? Xenophobic'. Because I've never in twenty years of watching SW movies seen it.

I think The Empire being xenophobic started off as sort of a brain bug, since we never see any alien species in the Imperial military proper (in the films). Aside from some of the bounty hunters in ESB and Garindan in ANH there are no aliens IIRC working for the Empire (again in the films) Please correc tme if i'm wrong on saying that.

Eventually this anti-alien sentiment worked its way into the EU, where it became a part of the Empire.

THeres more I could go into, but it would be semi-coherent rambling.

[brianeyci]

First, I don't think anybody, not even the Federation would surrender autonomy based on the outcome of a single battle. Even the Federation in the alternate timeline took 40 billion casualties before going close to surrendering to the Klingons. Officers would not have the authority to negotiate for their governments, they'd have to send diplomats, and diplomats won't take kindly to ultimatums. Military officers would also be the least likely to want to surrender. Stories of some uber fleet coming in might not be believed by the politicians who would have the authority, and the civilian population which the politicians would be accountable to and wouldn't want their government to surrender if they even had a hint of patriotism in them.

I think it would take a few annihilated worlds, core worlds, or more demonstrations of their power for this situation to be believable.

Brian

[brianeyci]

EDIT : To add to my point, scientists are usually the least listened to when it comes to political decisions. Scientists will be able to tell that the Empire's technology is far in advance of theirs, but I can easily think of attitudes like this coming up after this single battle and a few hundred military officers coming home.

"We defeated the Borg, we can defeat the Empire."

"We were unlucky."

"We just need more firepower."

"If we work together we can defeat them."

And of course the military officers might not be believed, or they may suggest to their own governments to fight to the death given military officers are generally patriotic (even Federation Starfleet hate the mention of the word surrender).

Politicians normally ignore scientists on a range of issues. So I don't see why this situation would be any different if it's just a single battle and a few hundred military officers coming home. Star Trek powers have taken worse casualties and have not surrendered, not even close.

And if the military officers come home with nothing but stories of destruction and gloom in a single battle (assuming they even write their reports that way, they could try and cover their asses), the nation's scientists won't even have the information to conclude that their homeworld doesn't have a chance.

Brian

[brianeyci]

EDIT : I also want to say that I have trouble believing the op too. All the problems I outlined above--Thrawn would be aware of them. He would send diplomats and ships to Alpha Quadrant worlds and prove his power right in front of the politician's faces instead of to military officers who have no authority to negotiate anything for their government, much less surrender.

An anagalous situation would be the annihilation of an entire carrier battlegroup by some unknown alien power from orbit. A few hundred officers are released back to the United States. Would the officers suggest surrender? Would they be believed? Would the President surrender based on the outcome of a single battle or join an interstellar organization based on the outcome of a single battle?

But, if an alien saucer landed right on the white house lawn and a hundred troops with forcefields came out and were immune to firearms and issued an ultimatum to the nation on national television, it would be a different story.

Brian

[Sidewinder]

EDIT : I also want to say that I have trouble believing the op too. All the problems I outlined above--Thrawn would be aware of them. He would send diplomats and ships to Alpha Quadrant worlds and prove his power right in front of the politician's faces instead of to military officers who have no authority to negotiate anything for their government, much less surrender.

Good point. Let me make a ghetto edit of the scenario:

Thrawn sends a scouting force-- two star destroyers, an interdictor, and their respective TIE complements-- to capture human intelligence sources-- local politicians, ambassadors, military officers, etc.-- from a Star Trek power. After he gets the info he wants, he sends Strike Force One to destroy the defense forces of a Star Trek power's capital planet and to enforce a blockade. Any Star Trek reinforcements that arrive will be annihilated when Strike Force Two launches a flanking attack, trapping the enemy fleet between Thrawn's strike forces.

Then he makes the ultimatum.