Would you save kid Hitler?

Battlehymn Republic · Post by **Battlehymn Republic** » 2006-07-17 03:38pm

An ethical question, here:

Supposing you had a choice between either saving the life of Hitler as a kid, or of letting him die. If you let him live, nothing is changed, he still goes on to become ruler of Germany, genocide extraordinaire, and the devil of the 20th century. If he dies, then assume that Germany goes on to see better days, and in general a lot less people die. Ignore the alternate history ramifications, no Stalin rolls across the Continent.

Would you save the life of a kid who grows up to kill millions? Or would you let him die?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2006-07-17 03:39pm

Assuming that as Lord President of the Time Lords, or some such, I know that his death will result in a much better history, of course I'd let him die. Hell, I'd shoot him myself.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2006-07-17 03:43pm

Do I know that he'll turn out to be a mass-murderer in the future? If yes, then I'd let the little bastard rot. If no, then what's the point in the question at all?

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2006-07-17 03:48pm

Nobody ever votes to save him, then reform him and try to raise him to be a nice boy. These theoretical time travellers *always* see no other recourse to a bullet in Baby Hitler.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2006-07-17 04:04pm

Lagmonster wrote:Nobody ever votes to save him, then reform him and try to raise him to be a nice boy. These theoretical time travellers *always* see no other recourse to a bullet in Baby Hitler.

Like teaching him to be a better painter?

Gaidin · Post by **Gaidin** » 2006-07-17 04:10pm

Not knowing history, I'd save him.

Knowing history and being able to look on the situation critically, and hopefully with a low count on emotional bias, I'd say not saving him raises too many questions. Granted I'm no history scholar, but wasn't Europe rather tense and bound to snap anyway during that time? The choices are between the evil I know or the evil I don't know...

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-07-17 04:15pm

Beowulf wrote:
Lagmonster wrote:Nobody ever votes to save him, then reform him and try to raise him to be a nice boy. These theoretical time travellers *always* see no other recourse to a bullet in Baby Hitler.
Like teaching him to be a better painter?

Sure; such a thing might actually work. Had the Vienna Academy allowed him to enter, he might have still been a crazy anti-semite, but he might have also avoided service in the First World War, instead of actively enlisting. If that had occured, it seems unlikely that he would have really had the clout or even the drive to try and overthrow the German Republic, especially if he actually became a self-sufficent artist.

Besides, I never thought he was really that bad from what works I've seen attributed to him; just rather mediocre.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2006-07-17 04:25pm

Lagmonster wrote:Nobody ever votes to save him, then reform him and try to raise him to be a nice boy. These theoretical time travellers *always* see no other recourse to a bullet in Baby Hitler.

Maybe that's because it's not an option that's presented? The obvious answer, assuming you're essentially allowed to do anything, would be to pull him through to 2006 with you again. Then he can't do jack to start the Third Reich.

Anguirus · Post by **Anguirus** » 2006-07-17 04:29pm

Realistically, interference would wreak havoc on the world I know, the world I came from. I don't have the right to alter so many lives with no idea how it will turn out.

Theoretically, one life, no matter how young or innocent, is worth destroying to save the millions destined to die if he grows up into the Hitler we know and hate.

Ideally, I'd teach him to be a good little boy, but that leads to the most uncertainty of all, since I don't even know if he will listen to me at all, or to wha exent I will influence him, or what long-term effect this influence will have.

Adrian Laguna · Post by **Adrian Laguna** » 2006-07-17 05:07pm

Both the Spanish Civil War and the Second World War were important factors in causing my father's family to move to Venezuela. No Hitler changes history dramatically and means that very likely I am not born. Aside from the time paradox issue, I'm rather fond of being alive, so no bullet for Hitler until 1945.

Talanth · Post by **Talanth** » 2006-07-17 05:23pm

In the situation you've described, the world absolutly guarentied to be a better place if he was dead, I'd let him die. Unfortunatly (my concience would still kill me for it).

In the slightly more realistic situation of living in that time but having precognition I would save him, because the future is always uncertun, and at that time the war was still in the future. Even if the war started up after that I would only feel a little guilty as there would again be no guarentee that my action caused the war (uncertanty in the future again).

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2006-07-17 05:29pm

Adrian Laguna wrote:Both the Spanish Civil War and the Second World War were important factors in causing my father's family to move to Venezuela. No Hitler changes history dramatically and means that very likely I am not born. Aside from the time paradox issue, I'm rather fond of being alive, so no bullet for Hitler until 1945.

So you're saying, grandfather paradox left aside, you consider your own life more important than the lives of the 12 million victims of the Holocaust (add another 20-40 million if we consider Hitler and NSDAP as being culpable for WWII overall, which is open to argument)? The morality of this escapes me, please explain.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2006-07-17 05:33pm

Adrian Laguna wrote:Both the Spanish Civil War and the Second World War were important factors in causing my father's family to move to Venezuela. No Hitler changes history dramatically and means that very likely I am not born. Aside from the time paradox issue, I'm rather fond of being alive, so no bullet for Hitler until 1945.

As you have been born those changes either didn't occur or didn't stop your dad's family from moving to Venezuela.
Of course, that's the crux of 'go back and fix the past' scenarios-if the past needs fixing, that means the fix already failed. Had you succeeded in neutralizing Hitler by whatever means there would be no reason to go back and neutralize him in the first place because his atrocities would never have happened in the first place...
This is why I hate time travel stories.

That being said if I CAN alter the past he's one dead Herrenmensch. Yes, reforming him/simply taking him away would be preferrable (I doubt even Adolf was genetically preprogrammed to be a hyperantisemitic megalomaniac) but as that is not an option as per the OP, hasta la vista, Adolf.

Thanas · Post by **Thanas** » 2006-07-17 05:40pm

There is no guarantee that the Nazi party or antisemetic movements in Germany (which were huge even before Hitler) will wither away without him, or that the political and economic situation which drove the people to elect him (e.g. the stock crisis) will result in different outcomes. Granted, it may not be as vicious, but I (speaking as a german myself) would rather have a dead dictator in berlin 1945 than a dictator ruling over the Grossreich Deutschland in my time.

Besides, not saving him is like fucking with timelines without knowing the outcome. I'd rather take the safe road.

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2006-07-17 05:43pm

I would kill him and then travel to Georgia and get rid of Stalin too.

But since my grandparents came together due to WWII, I would no longer exist, thus there would be a paradox, becuse the alternate me from an alternate univere that changed my history would also be deleted.

Lord Woodlouse · Post by **Lord Woodlouse** » 2006-07-17 05:48pm

Admiral Johnason wrote:I would kill him and then travel to Georgia and get rid of Stalin too.

But since my grandparents came together due to WWII, I would no longer exist, thus there would be a paradox, becuse the alternate me from an alternate univere that changed my history would also be deleted.

More likely you'd form a split reality, the one you came from and grew up in still exists. You still have a Hitler in your past. But this new place does not have a Hitler in it's future.

I reckon you've done a favour (probably, anyway) to an Earth which is, essentially to you, a whole new one.

I'd do it if only for curiousity. Though I'd prefer a chance to "correct" Hitler.

Vanas · Post by **Vanas** » 2006-07-17 05:50pm

I don't think I could kill him, let alone 'would'. I personally don't feel that I could kill someone, even if that person would grow up to be a mass-murdering dictator.
And that's not even going into thoughts on what it might do to the future. I think I'd get caught in a mental blue screen and seize up until the NSDAP wheels me away on a sack trolley.

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2006-07-17 05:57pm

Lord Woodlouse wrote:
Admiral Johnason wrote:I would kill him and then travel to Georgia and get rid of Stalin too.

But since my grandparents came together due to WWII, I would no longer exist, thus there would be a paradox, becuse the alternate me from an alternate univere that changed my history would also be deleted.
More likely you'd form a split reality, the one you came from and grew up in still exists. You still have a Hitler in your past. But this new place does not have a Hitler in it's future.

I reckon you've done a favour (probably, anyway) to an Earth which is, essentially to you, a whole new one.

I'd do it if only for curiousity. Though I'd prefer a chance to "correct" Hitler.

But you would also have to deal with Stalin to prevent a C&C Red Alert situation where to Soviets dominate Europe.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2006-07-17 06:06pm

I wouldn't let him die simply due to the fact that I have no way of knowing if history would actually be better, and not worse or the same without him.

Lord Woodlouse · Post by **Lord Woodlouse** » 2006-07-17 06:17pm

Admiral Johnason wrote:
Lord Woodlouse wrote:
Admiral Johnason wrote:I would kill him and then travel to Georgia and get rid of Stalin too.

But since my grandparents came together due to WWII, I would no longer exist, thus there would be a paradox, becuse the alternate me from an alternate univere that changed my history would also be deleted.
More likely you'd form a split reality, the one you came from and grew up in still exists. You still have a Hitler in your past. But this new place does not have a Hitler in it's future.

I reckon you've done a favour (probably, anyway) to an Earth which is, essentially to you, a whole new one.

I'd do it if only for curiousity. Though I'd prefer a chance to "correct" Hitler.
But you would also have to deal with Stalin to prevent a C&C Red Alert situation where to Soviets dominate Europe.

Which is probably bollocks.

If Germany rides out recession it probably becomes a reasonably successful state. Britain, France and Germany probably form an axis which Stalin would be shitscared of provoking.

Adrian Laguna · Post by **Adrian Laguna** » 2006-07-17 06:23pm

Pablo Sanchez wrote:So you're saying, grandfather paradox left aside, you consider your own life more important than the lives of the 12 million victims of the Holocaust (add another 20-40 million if we consider Hitler and NSDAP as being culpable for WWII overall, which is open to argument)? The morality of this escapes me, please explain.

You misunderstand, it's not that I consider my life more important than that of several million. It's just that I don't have the balls to give my life for anything short of preserving the human race itself.

Molyneux · Post by **Molyneux** » 2006-07-17 06:29pm

If it's an option, I'd do my best to teach him to live right and cure him of his anti-Semitism.

If not...I'd be torn-up about it, but he'd be one dead baby-Fuhrer.

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2006-07-17 06:42pm

Lord Woodlouse wrote:
Admiral Johnason wrote:
Lord Woodlouse wrote: More likely you'd form a split reality, the one you came from and grew up in still exists. You still have a Hitler in your past. But this new place does not have a Hitler in it's future.

I reckon you've done a favour (probably, anyway) to an Earth which is, essentially to you, a whole new one.

I'd do it if only for curiousity. Though I'd prefer a chance to "correct" Hitler.
But you would also have to deal with Stalin to prevent a C&C Red Alert situation where to Soviets dominate Europe.
Which is probably bollocks.

If Germany rides out recession it probably becomes a reasonably successful state. Britain, France and Germany probably form an axis which Stalin would be shitscared of provoking.

But I am not willing to tkae that chance. Besides, I wonder what the USSR would be like with Trostky in power.

I know I can't spell his name.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2006-07-17 06:46pm

A similar question was asked in the movie "Come and See". The main character, even witnessing the horrors of genocide in Belorussia, refused to make the last shot when his hallucination turned into a Baby Hitler.

I would not kill him.

Was the Second World War necessary?

I believe yes. It made people across continents more aware and careful, has shown Nazism and Fascism to the world. Yes, millions died, but humanity gained an awareness against nazism, racism. Today fascism would be a hundred times more welcome across the world if not for the War.

On a side note, I wouldn't be born either if not for the War.

Big Orange · Post by **Big Orange** » 2006-07-17 06:55pm

I would most likely try and save an innocent, infant Hitler out of morality. But logically I will refuse, since it would bugger up the timeline and I would not even be born altogether (like tens of millions of other people, I was born as a direct consequence of WWII).