Jim Peron wrote:I'm not surprised at this. Many years ago I had attended a fundamentalist high school. I went to their Bible college for two years as well. One of the teachers there was a minister named Richard Angwin. He left the school to take over the fundie Temple Baptist Church in St. Paul, Minnesota. One of his first campaigns there was the typical gay bashing that no fundamentalist can seem to resist in one form or another. He lead an antigay campaign there. He was lauded by fundamentalists in that part of the US for his effort and was soon going from church to church speaking on how they could go after the queers in their neighbourhood as well.
He came back to my part of the country to led an anti-gay seminar and I decided to drop in. I took a seat near the back and had pencil and paper out to take notes. He stood in the pulpit for a few seconds before speaking, saw me and stopped. He left the podium and came to back and said I had to leave. He wouldn't speak with me in the audience. He didn't want his message recorded. I left.
He gave the same seminar two days in a row so a minister friend of mine took a tape recorder and went to the second session. They let him stay and I had a full recording of what Angwin told these born-againers.
He said that if they openly told the public what their agenda was that no one would accept them. They had to be deceptive, to play down the really extreme views that they held. For instance he said they shouldn't say anything about how they opposed dancing, "Hollywood movies", "mixed bathing" (that a public swimming pool), etc. Only jump on issues in a moderate way and when you get that push for more. He said this method would allow the fundamentalists to eventually get the theocratic type of rule that drool over.
Via money Europe could become political in five years" "... the current communities should be completed by a Finance Common Market which would lead us to European economic unity. Only then would ... the mutual commitments make it fairly easy to produce the political union which is the goal"
No surprise, really. If fundies really openly and fanatically proclaimed all they strive to achieve, that is a theocratic "biblical" existence, it would be repugnant to most of the society, so they'd be ostracized just like the Islamist fundies.
... But oppose "dancing" and "mixed bathing"? That's really on the border of ridiculous.
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...
...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Stas Bush wrote:No surprise, really. If fundies really openly and fanatically proclaimed all they strive to achieve, that is a theocratic "biblical" existence, it would be repugnant to most of the society, so they'd be ostracized just like the Islamist fundies.
... But oppose "dancing" and "mixed bathing"? That's really on the border of ridiculous.
Much like the Taliban. Incidentally, they also banned kite-flying. For some reason.
CotK <mew> | HAB | JL | MM | TTC | Cybertron
TAX THE CHURCHES! - Lord Zentei TTC Supreme Grand Prophet
And the LORD said, Let there be Bosons! Yea and let there be Bosoms too!
I'd rather be the great great grandson of a demon ninja than some jackass who grew potatos. -- Covenant
Dead cows don't fart. -- CJvR
...and I like strudel! -- Asuka
Incidentally, they also banned kite-flying. For some reason.
Vestiges of Luddism that are present in most religions? Religion opposes technology for a pretty common reason, "humans should know their place" (c) SEELE. In other words, they perceive technology as arrogance. For some reason also, flight technology has been hit the hardest by it - perhaps because only God and his heavenly servants should reside in heaven, and humans should not "fly" in the sky by any means.
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...
...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Incidentally, they also banned kite-flying. For some reason.
Vestiges of Luddism that are present in most religions? Religion opposes technology for a pretty common reason, "humans should know their place" (c) SEELE. In other words, they perceive technology as arrogance. For some reason also, flight technology has been hit the hardest by it - perhaps because only God and his heavenly servants should reside in heaven, and humans should not "fly" in the sky by any means.
Or perhaps they just object to people having fun, since it distracts them from prayer and righteous living. Who knows.
CotK <mew> | HAB | JL | MM | TTC | Cybertron
TAX THE CHURCHES! - Lord Zentei TTC Supreme Grand Prophet
And the LORD said, Let there be Bosons! Yea and let there be Bosoms too!
I'd rather be the great great grandson of a demon ninja than some jackass who grew potatos. -- Covenant
Dead cows don't fart. -- CJvR
...and I like strudel! -- Asuka
The whole "mix bathing" thing is fucking stupid. When my brother, who has recently started taking a liking into God, went swimming with some of the youth from the church he attends. The females had to wear fucking shirts. The reasoning behind this is that if a male sees an attractive female in a bathing suit, he will "lust" for her. According to the bible, lusting is a sin. Who gives a fuck if we lust? JESUS CHRIST!!!
JLTucker wrote:Who gives a fuck if we lust? JESUS CHRIST!!!
I think you just answered your own question.
CotK <mew> | HAB | JL | MM | TTC | Cybertron
TAX THE CHURCHES! - Lord Zentei TTC Supreme Grand Prophet
And the LORD said, Let there be Bosons! Yea and let there be Bosoms too!
I'd rather be the great great grandson of a demon ninja than some jackass who grew potatos. -- Covenant
Dead cows don't fart. -- CJvR
...and I like strudel! -- Asuka
"If one needed proof that a guitar was more than wood and string, that a song was more than notes and words, and that a man could be more than a name and a few faded pictures, then Robert Johnson’s recordings were all one could ask for."
Christian fundies are just as crazy as Islamic fundies. They just have too much to lose, so they won't risk it all by going jihad on people. If you made a nation entirely of Christian fundies, plunged it into the kind of poverty and deprivation common in the Middle East, left it that way for a generation or so, and then tried to meddle with their politics, you'd see some Christian fundie terrorism pretty quick. Hell, we have the rare incident of Christian fundie terrorism even now, despite the incredibly cushy life they lead in America as the world's most wealthy and powerful religion.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
JLTucker wrote:Damn. I didn't realize that. The "JESUS CHRIST" was supposed to represent anger.
I know, I just found that funny. Excuse my poor sense of humor.
Beat you to it.
Darth Wong wrote:Hell, we have the rare incident of Christian fundie terrorism even now, despite the incredibly cushy life they lead in America as the world's most wealthy and powerful religion.
Which is something Christian apologsits would like to forget if they could.
CotK <mew> | HAB | JL | MM | TTC | Cybertron
TAX THE CHURCHES! - Lord Zentei TTC Supreme Grand Prophet
And the LORD said, Let there be Bosons! Yea and let there be Bosoms too!
I'd rather be the great great grandson of a demon ninja than some jackass who grew potatos. -- Covenant
Dead cows don't fart. -- CJvR
...and I like strudel! -- Asuka
Lord Zentei wrote:Or perhaps they just object to people having fun, since it distracts them from prayer and righteous living. Who knows.
You're not far off. Kite flying, or more specifically kite-fighting, has been a popular sport in that part of the world for centuries. It wasn't native to Afganistan though and is probably seen by the Taleban as a baleful foreign influence which distracts from devotion to Islam. That it also is a source of enjoyment which is outside of devotion to Islam is also another reason, so to speak, why it would be targeted for extirpation. Fundamentalism is essentially about the control of human behaviour, and strictly defining what is and isn't allowed in personal life is about as thorough a control as you can imagine other than strictly regulating sexuality.
When ballots have fairly and constitutionally decided, there can be no successful appeal back to bullets.
—Abraham Lincoln
People pray so that God won't crush them like bugs.
—Dr. Gregory House
Oil an emergency?! It's about time, Brigadier, that the leaders of this planet of yours realised that to remain dependent upon a mineral slime simply doesn't make sense.
—The Doctor "Terror Of The Zygons" (1975)
The kites obviously are drifting too close to heaven.
Mayabird is my girlfriend
Justice League:BotM:MM:SDnet City Watch:Cybertron's Finest "Well then, science is bullshit. "
-revprez, with yet another brilliant rebuttal.
Darth Wong wrote:Christian fundies are just as crazy as Islamic fundies. They just have too much to lose, so they won't risk it all by going jihad on people. If you made a nation entirely of Christian fundies, plunged it into the kind of poverty and deprivation common in the Middle East, left it that way for a generation or so, and then tried to meddle with their politics, you'd see some Christian fundie terrorism pretty quick. Hell, we have the rare incident of Christian fundie terrorism even now, despite the incredibly cushy life they lead in America as the world's most wealthy and powerful religion.
I beleive the West has done that and we call it the Dark Ages/medievalism. Remember how the authorities of those times reacted to anything remotely challenging? The article posted shows how close to the surface such things are in the west despite our advances over the last hundred and fifty odd years.
Via money Europe could become political in five years" "... the current communities should be completed by a Finance Common Market which would lead us to European economic unity. Only then would ... the mutual commitments make it fairly easy to produce the political union which is the goal"
He said that if they openly told the public what their agenda was that no one would accept them. They had to be deceptive...
What I don't understand is how the flock goes along with this. Surely there's some moderating influence on them from the general populace, whether it be friends, family, or coworkers. Shouldn't there be a schism when people realize that their minister is batshit insane?
"If one needed proof that a guitar was more than wood and string, that a song was more than notes and words, and that a man could be more than a name and a few faded pictures, then Robert Johnson’s recordings were all one could ask for."
wolveraptor wrote:What I don't understand is how the flock goes along with this. Surely there's some moderating influence on them from the general populace, whether it be friends, family, or coworkers. Shouldn't there be a schism when people realize that their minister is batshit insane?
Its called indoctrination, combined, essentially, with the usual lust for power.
An indoctrinated person will not speak out because that is what they beleive to be the right way of thinking, so ther is nothing to speak out about. Also, like any other person, they want advancement for whatever reason.
Via money Europe could become political in five years" "... the current communities should be completed by a Finance Common Market which would lead us to European economic unity. Only then would ... the mutual commitments make it fairly easy to produce the political union which is the goal"
Once one is integrated into a belief system like this, one accepts, consciously or not, that there are those who have a more direct line of reception to the divine commands than onesself. Nagging doubts will constantly surface, especially if one has a friend or two who thinks or seems to be a living counterexample to the message; however, fundamental insecurities as to one's right to question will silence the moral power that ought to be behind rational thought, and quiet heresies will lie in wait at the back of the mind for years or decades until an unavoidable cataclysm forces one to confront them decisively. Of course by that time one will have heard countless rejoinders to "choose for Christ" at a moments notice, and will be biased to see a crisis as a a test of faith. I would never have escaped if I hadn't found out my grandfather was a lying pedophile fraud, and coincidentally, a top ranking minister.
The Yosemite Bear wrote:Can we get neo-pagan fundamentalists to burn them in a gaint wicker construct? please?
I am always tempted to offer them up as a sacrifice. Only thing is I am very sure the Gods would send them back and bitchslap me for it...
"The real ideological schism in America is not Republican vs Democrat; it is North vs South, Urban vs Rural, and it has been since the 19th century."
-Mike Wong
That's really on the border of ridiculous.
-- Asuka
Religion opposes technology for a pretty common reason, "humans should know their place" (c) SEELE. In other words, they perceive technology as arrogance. For some reason also, flight technology has been hit the hardest by it - perhaps because only God and his heavenly servants should reside in heaven, and humans should not "fly" in the sky by any means.
