StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Watching nemesis, the reman intruders go unobstructed until they run into a squad of federation security.

we see areas of the ship can be isolated with shields to slow down or stop intruders, how come no one thought of putting automated stun phasers built into the corridors to stop people? seems like a sensible defense system.

The Enterprise was a bit beat up, the self destruct didn't work. they didn't even have power for transporters, or at least after they did, it shorted out everything. Maybe forcefields were down.

aussiemuscle308 wrote:Watching nemesis, the reman intruders go unobstructed until they run into a squad of federation security.

we see areas of the ship can be isolated with shields to slow down or stop intruders, how come no one thought of putting automated stun phasers built into the corridors to stop people? seems like a sensible defense system.

in addition to what FanModem said stun setting on phasers can kill either on it's own or by forcing the person to fall badly, it's rare but it can happen.

And there's the thing that some species can resist the stun effect too.

This reminds me of a line from Doom 3. It went something like: How is a machine supposed to know the difference between a guy gone having a really bad day and one gone insane and dangerous.

Why wouldn't the security force fields be working? Weren't there force fields covering hull breaches?

And why didn't anyone try flooding the area where the Remans came in with anestazine (mentioned in TNG "The Hunted") to neutralize the intruders?

Just one more problem with Nemesis: no respect for continuity.

They never seem to use anything like that twice--they had neural gases for internal security in TOS Space Seed but you only saw it once. I like the idea of a species resistant to gases--lets see it take place on the big screen, then see redshirts wearing breath masks for the phaser fight, even Remans ripping off masks in hand-to-hand and security personnel passing out. Would have been more exciting than what we got.

Ted C wrote: Just one more problem with Nemesis: no respect for continuity.

Nemesis is shit but this problem is hardly the fault of the movie. If anything the lack of internal defences or idiotic security IS respecting continuity.

The closest we ever see is the deployment of automatic wide beam emitters on Earth to counter the Founders. Beyond that security is a bunch of gold / red shirts meatbags designed to do fuck all but die.

As for why they dont use sentry guns: I believe that was brought up before and the excuse was:

A) Feds dont like the idea of having automated guns on every corner... pretty much how modern day folks dont like the idea of having security cameras plastered to everything. How uncomfortable are you going to be when that camera has the ability to stun / shoot you

B) Fed computer security is abysmal alone without the poor reliability. One fuck up causes security guns to randomly start gunning people down in the hallways. If I was a Founder, I would be eager to hack that system so I could have their own sentry guns wipe everyone out.

Interestingly, Andromeda has an internal defence system that is basically mounted sentry guns in the corridors and the much more amusing ability to alter the artificial gravity fields of the floor so it literally pins people to the deck. Something which Enterprise demonstrated could be done on TOS Connies as I recall.

Forcefields, AG fields and Lifesupport. The Feds should have all the internal defences they really need to keep an attacker from doing anything.
Throw in those wide beam fixtures (DS9 Paradise Lost) + Transporter scramblers (Insurection)

They ARE very inconsistent about it, but they did have forcefields every couple of meters on the E-D. And forcefields that smother fires everywhere. And magic sleepy gas, and internal sensors that already automatically track the position and movements of every individual on the ship.

We also see something like a sentry gun (the aforementioned security sweep phasers) and sinply increasing the artificial gravity to the point where motion is impossible (but that was on ENT and may not count.)

For that matter, wasn't there an episode where Data had all the lights on the ship strobe to counter a mind-control gimmick? That could be really helpful against tunnel-dwellers who are uncomfortable with indoor lighting. Or turn the lights up. Or just leave them on.

Or just vent the life support
Or just turn off the gravity
Or just beam them into the brig / space

There is all sorts of shit the Feds should be able to do with the tech they have but they dont because it ultimately becomes inconvinient to the writer's fiat.

As for the forcefields - We saw Wes Crusher effectively dodging and weaving the entire crew of the E-D complete with avoiding a forcefield. They eventually caught him but when he bumped into that forcefield you would have thought they would literally have turned them all on across the deck. Instead they just kinda turn one on in front of him while he goes down the other corridor.

I'm reminded of that big wind up scene we see in Nemesis where they are gearing up complete with forcefield covering the warp core. First salvo from the Scimitar and the forcefield fails. Pretty much the testimony of how the Feds are at security systems.
There is also that episode where Troi, Data and O'Brien get possesed.

Magical forcefields lock them in - Data smashes one of the wall panels and drains the energy causing them to fail.

Seems like the Forcefields arent really a security measure and are part of the emergency system for dealing with hull ruptures.
In other words: Star Fleet's 'security' IS basically red shirts / gold shirts. All the other stuff we see is relegated to being the ultra awesome technobabble solution of the week that noone will ever think to use again.

Flooding areas with anesthizine is mentioned or done in several other ST episodes (DS9: "The Siege", DS9: "One Little Ship", VOY: "Message in a Bottle") and discarded as an option in even more (because it wouldn't affect Data in TNG: "Power Play," because it wouldn't affect Keiko O'Brien fast enough in DS9: "The Assignment", because environmental controls were locked down in TNG: "Rascals").

Force fields are used tactically repeatedly as well, by both Starfleet ships (TNG: "Brothers", TNG: "The Hunted", TNG: "I Borg", TNG:"Allegiance"), and Starfleet on a Cardassian station (DS9: "The Jem'Hadar", DS9: "Dramatis Personae", DS9: "In the Hands of the Prophets", DS9: "Whispers").

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't the remans a rather poorly known race during Nemesis, so it could that they couldn't think of a gas that would effect them (either fast enough or at all) in the time that was given as for forcefields I dunno.

aussiemuscle308 wrote:Watching nemesis, the reman intruders go unobstructed until they run into a squad of federation security.

we see areas of the ship can be isolated with shields to slow down or stop intruders, how come no one thought of putting automated stun phasers built into the corridors to stop people? seems like a sensible defense system.

Watching ANH, the rebel intruders go unobstructed until they run into a squad of storm troopers.....

Would you place automated blasters in the same place where there's need for astrodroid linking ports? Especially if your commander in chief (or whatever Darth Vader's official qualification is) used to have a modified and somewhat crazed one capable of taking control of anything controllable?

Lord Revan wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't the remans a rather poorly known race during Nemesis, so it could that they couldn't think of a gas that would effect them (either fast enough or at all) in the time that was given as for forcefields I dunno.

They're not likely to be substantially different from Romulans, and there's no reason not to at least try, anyway.

Yeah lets just spew random poisonous gases around our enclosed spaceship what could possibly go wrong?

The only really annoying thing for me was the dark lights, since the film explicitly pointed out it was a problem for remans and then never followed up on it all in anyway,

Crazedwraith wrote:Yeah lets just spew random poisonous gases around our enclosed spaceship what could possibly go wrong?

What do you mean random? I'm sure that the effect of this "anestazine" stuff is well known on most humanoids.

Oh sorry, I thought you were suggesting just trying any random compound that worked on romulans.

But yeah still, circulating knockout gas around your battle damaged, hopefully enclosed ship is just asking for blowback. Not when you could just turn up the lights. Harmful to Remans and not to your guys/

Crazedwraith wrote:But yeah still, circulating knockout gas around your battle damaged, hopefully enclosed ship is just asking for blowback. Not when you could just turn up the lights. Harmful to Remans and not to your guys/

Their internal sensors at least seem to be good at locating hull breachs, broken seals, and compromised compartments, so I think they should be able to limit the areas affected.

But this is all academic, because the script was written to have a shootout in the halls, not a sensible use of the ship's known internal security measures and environmental controls.

If the Feds were behaving intelligently, then the Remans would have been immediately surrounded by force fields, gassed, and transported to a brightly lit holding area, with their weapons disabled during transport. If the transporters were already off line, then they'd have to be contained with force fields and gassed, with the lights turned up around them for good measure.

Sending a couple of bridge officers and some red shirts to chase them through the hall with phasers was stupidity written to give Riker and Worf something to do while Picard was off dueling Shinzon.

Yeah, like most other people have said, the main problem is really the lack of efficient use of the technology they have to create a show. Even my dad goes at random points, Why didn't they just do this, or that? Internal Forcefields are common but most times, writers simply choose to have this long protracted chase around the ship until something important happens.

There's Anesthizine gas which they used in TNG The Hunted, TNG Power Play, TNG Rascals, DS9 The Siege, DS9 The Assignment, Voy Message in a bottle, DS9 One Little Ship. So there's 7 instances of gas used.

dragon wrote:There's Anesthizine gas which they used in TNG The Hunted, TNG Power Play, TNG Rascals, DS9 The Siege, DS9 The Assignment, Voy Message in a bottle, DS9 One Little Ship. So there's 7 instances of gas used.

Or you could scroll up to where I posted this exact same list like 6 posts ago? Also, they didn't use the gas in all of those episodes. In some, they mention it as a possibility, but do not end up using it.

Put up forcefields, turn off the artificial gravity and vent life support.
Suddenly your Reman taskforce is stuck floating around, freezing / suffocating to death while stuck in a box.
Alternatively, put up forcefields, crank up artifical gravity to crush them and vent lift support.

Dont really need to play around pumping gas in when you can just pump all the air out or turn them into pancakes against the floor.

Artificial gravity may simply not be flexible enough for that. Remember, the only time it ever failed was when some (literally) torpedoed the generators. All those crisis situations when lights were out, they were about to freeze to death and/or suffocate on short notice? Artificial gravity was always on.

That tactic was used by the Mirror NX-01 crew against a Gorn on the constitution class USS Defiant so its definitely possible.

a) ENT, b) mirror universe and c) I was kidding you know.