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*giggles* Yeah... Thoughtful Game. You play GOBLINS!

I don't see why the fuss. One turn kill combos have always existed. It is just easier now because of the Internet and netdecks.

There is not only speed magic now. Play Limited (booster drafting, I've already posted what that means.) I cannot afford to keep 300 bucks every six months for constructed. Booster drafting is not about who has the most money to buy the most powerful cards. Booster drafting is not about killing someone in the first four to five turns. Booster drafting is highly strategic, drafting cards to deny your opponents and working in a limited set of cards using your skill to make a deck with the entire playing field even. Booster drafting is all about thoughtful moves, hundreds of them, and a limited amount of time to build your deck. Once all the boosters have been opened, you can draft continually with those cards making up boosters of fifteen with your friends.

Otherwise, the playing field is already uneven by virtue of, whoever has the most money, can buy the most powerful cards. This has always been the case before. I do not see why the newer cards have changed this at all. Constructed will always be like this.

The unfortunate thing?

I saw (and still see when i take the occassion to check it out) the exact same attitudes in YuGiOh TCG as is prevailent in MtG right now.

It's all about the speed, who can take the win quicker, who can deal the most damage the soonest, and no more about strategy.

These are the attitudes which destroy innovation in a TCG, they remove the element of fun for all but the most hardcore "extreme" player - these attitudes lead to netdecking, and massive amounts of cookie-cutter, with the only difference between decks being one or two "techs" placed in by the copier.

I've played booster deck tourneys, brian... and I've actually managed to place top five. However, I don't have the spare cash floating around to do this every time.

Unlike most younger Magic players, Mommy doesn't give me an allowance, and I've got bills to pay and groceries to buy. During my first marriage, where -his- mommy paid many of the bills, we would buy a full display box of boosters everytime a new set appeared, just to try to get the complete set. Some we never did get all the rares from. I'm still trying to get Nitram to let me buy a booster box of ColdSnap, just to finish my IceAge trilogy.

and I'm just remembering how much fun I used to have as a sadistic little pest of a magic player. With decks that weren't desinged to do massive damage mine were designed to draw things out and have fun with people.

LadyTevar wrote:Unlike most younger Magic players, Mommy doesn't give me an allowance, and I've got bills to pay and groceries to buy

Okay Friday Night Magic at a card store costs what, ten bucks. Three boosters, five hours, as casual as it gets. Don't have to buy a whole new box or "collect them all." That's the cost of a movie ticket, I can't imagine it getting any cheaper.

I am willing to consider that magic is total garbage, just that I'm not convinced by someone saying magic on average has gone down from 10 turn kills to... five. That wouldn't ruin a game for me and it might actually make it more exciting. I'm gonna try it at the card store next Friday. If it totally sucks, I'll come in and join you Destructionator and Nitram in yelling magic sucks now from the top of my lungs, but somehow I don't think it'll be that way. From an outsider's point of view, it seems like just nostalgia rather than a valid criticism. But again, I'm gonna try it, and if it's as bad as you say it is I'll say you win next week.

lance wrote:

Xisiqomelir wrote:So, we're all going to play a big SDN tournament on Apprentice, right?

And I'm guessing that the format will be Legacy, judging from the posts in this thread.

We could just rotate through the formats.

Count me in.

brianeyci wrote:

LadyTevar wrote:Unlike most younger Magic players, Mommy doesn't give me an allowance, and I've got bills to pay and groceries to buy

Okay Friday Night Magic at a card store costs what, ten bucks. Three boosters, five hours, as casual as it gets. Don't have to buy a whole new box or "collect them all." That's the cost of a movie ticket, I can't imagine it getting any cheaper.

You're assuming Nit and I have enough to go to movies, and that our local store does booster tourneys. You know what they say about assuming.

But have fun with the Friday game Since you're doing booster, and you are right, that does take more strategy than what most kids are doing nowadays, you should do well.

Hey, I guess I am an ass for assuming . If you lived in a major city you'd have a card store with FNM.

My brother regularly goes through thousands of cards, and he throws away the cards worth less than ten dollars he doesn't use (his rationale being stores don't buy them at their selling price but far lower) and says the only reason to keep them is to trade them into a certain card store in the city which he says pays ten bucks for a thousand commons. Most magic players do that these days, a colossal waste I always thought. The next time my brother tosses a few hundred away, I'll take them and if you pay the postage I'll send send them to you, and I'm sure other people on this board would do the same. Especially after the summer in the winter when cards go out of type two, people toss away all their old shit.

WHAT THE FUCK!?!?!?

He throws away the common cards he doesn't use?!?!? Gosh it must be nice to have all that disposable income. He should start thinking of how much those cards might be worth in ten years... you know, like some of the Revised Commons I have 10 copies of that have never been reprinted?

Yes, when he feels like tossing out the old to make in with the new, let me know. I'll try to talk Nit into paying postage.

LadyTevar wrote:WHAT THE FUCK!?!?!?

He throws away the common cards he doesn't use?!?!? Gosh it must be nice to have all that disposable income. He should start thinking of how much those cards might be worth in ten years... you know, like some of the Revised Commons I have 10 copies of that have never been reprinted?

Yes, when he feels like tossing out the old to make in with the new, let me know. I'll try to talk Nit into paying postage.

He doesn't pay rent, doesn't pay for bills, and pays only for a bit of groceries. But he works full time now that he's dropped out of high school.

Sometimes I wish I hadn't gone to university and worked for the past four years... I'd be sooooooo fucking rich, could buy whatever I wanted, and probably make life for my mom a lot easier. But meh, that's life. Degree will pay off later, I'm hoping.

How many people around here throw out cards. Raise your hands, not all at once or you'll give the lady a heart attack. Yeah I feel ashamed now to mention it, what a waste. I've even seen players (usually kids) rip up cards and throw them all over the table after booster drafts, even rares, just to show off how much allowance they have.

I remembered them too, that's part of why I got out of playing magic. the final straw was loosing several hundred dollars worth of cars to some flood.

brianeyci wrote:How many people around here throw out cards. Raise your hands, not all at once or you'll give the lady a heart attack.

I used to try to give them away. Though some cards had the trifecta of suck (common+weak+terrible art), and I couldn't even do that.

brianeyci wrote: He doesn't pay rent, doesn't pay for bills, and pays only for a bit of groceries. But he works full time now that he's dropped out of high school.

I won't comment there, it's none of my business

How many people around here throw out cards. Raise your hands, not all at once or you'll give the lady a heart attack. Yeah I feel ashamed now to mention it, what a waste. I've even seen players (usually kids) rip up cards and throw them all over the table after booster drafts, even rares, just to show off how much allowance they have.

Ya know... there was a reason why Magic dropped the Ante Rule... people were too attached to their cards to lose them.

Now kids RIP UP THE RARE CARDS JUST BECAUSE???!

Ok. Now I know what's gone wrong with Magic. It's so clear to me now. Pre-Teen Kids with No Fuckin' Sense!

Xisiqomelir wrote:

lance wrote:

Xisiqomelir wrote:So, we're all going to play a big SDN tournament on Apprentice, right?

And I'm guessing that the format will be Legacy, judging from the posts in this thread.

We could just rotate through the formats.

Count me in.

Im in for this, however, lets play what ever, just nothing banned or restricted. I'd like to play stuff im currently playing in real life(not proxying) and my red crush deck.

Where do I buy/download Apprentice

Ya know... we do this "Hey, let's Play Magic on Apprentice!" every time these threads come up, and it dies within a month.

Apprentice?

Shit when I buy the cards, I find better uses for some of the commons and uncommons then most of the rares. I NEVER EVER toss anything. Course I have little money so, yeah.

The Yosemite Bear wrote:Apprentice?

If you use Windows.

If you use a *NIX OS, you can use Mindless Automaton and get card art.

After looking up the legacy format, I see we can play anything from legacy up to now correct?

Ill download Apprentice tonight.

LadyTevar wrote:Ya know... we do this "Hey, let's Play Magic on Apprentice!" every time these threads come up, and it dies within a month.

As it should. Half of magic's about the artwork, about holding the card in your hand, the smell of opening a new booster pack, feeling them, shuffling them, putting the cards down and seeing your friend's face when you pull an incredible draw. Internet magic's souless.

As it should. Half of magic's about the artwork, about holding the card in your hand, the smell of opening a new booster pack, feeling them, shuffling them, putting the cards down and seeing your friend's face when you pull an incredible draw. Internet magic's souless.

I'll second that. Nothing like a second turn Shivan Wumpus(6/6 trample for 4 mana.) Then on 3rd turn smacking for 9 with the Shivan Wumpus + Brute force and watching their face.

AidanMcfay wrote:

As it should. Half of magic's about the artwork, about holding the card in your hand, the smell of opening a new booster pack, feeling them, shuffling them, putting the cards down and seeing your friend's face when you pull an incredible draw. Internet magic's souless.

I'll second that. Nothing like a second turn Shivan Wumpus(6/6 trample for 4 mana.) Then on 3rd turn smacking for 9 with the Shivan Wumpus + Brute force and watching their face.

Do I really want to know how you get 4 mana in 2 turns? Or is this more of the Speed Magic Kill-em-before-they-blink junk.

Jesus... I remember when it took TIME to build up to the larger creatures, when you could smirk evilly at your opponent and tell them "it's coming... one more mana..." and have them fearing what madness would be in your hand. Then you play that Craw Wyrm, or Shivan Dragon, or Force Of Nature, and watch it trample all over your opponent's attempts to block. (Or whimper as they counterspell the damn thing )

LadyTevar wrote: Do I really want to know how you get 4 mana in 2 turns? Or is this more of the Speed Magic Kill-em-before-they-blink junk.

Jesus... I remember when it took TIME to build up to the larger creatures, when you could smirk evilly at your opponent and tell them "it's coming... one more mana..." and have them fearing what madness would be in your hand. Then you play that Craw Wyrm, or Shivan Dragon, or Force Of Nature, and watch it trample all over your opponent's attempts to block. (Or whimper as they counterspell the damn thing )

Who says that the 4 mana is sustainable? You've got two lands by turn two - if you're playing black you just tap one and toss out Dark Ritual = 3b + land = 4 mana. Granted, Dark Ritual isn't tourny regulation, but if I (a very casual player who's touched the game once in the last year) can come up with 4 mana in 2 turns off the top of my head, I'm sure people who play more regularly and spend money on cards have more creative and tourny legal methods. I think Forest Elf decks can get 4 mana on turn two as well...

LadyTevar wrote:

AidanMcfay wrote:

As it should. Half of magic's about the artwork, about holding the card in your hand, the smell of opening a new booster pack, feeling them, shuffling them, putting the cards down and seeing your friend's face when you pull an incredible draw. Internet magic's souless.

I'll second that. Nothing like a second turn Shivan Wumpus(6/6 trample for 4 mana.) Then on 3rd turn smacking for 9 with the Shivan Wumpus + Brute force and watching their face.

Do I really want to know how you get 4 mana in 2 turns? Or is this more of the Speed Magic Kill-em-before-they-blink junk.

Jesus... I remember when it took TIME to build up to the larger creatures, when you could smirk evilly at your opponent and tell them "it's coming... one more mana..." and have them fearing what madness would be in your hand. Then you play that Craw Wyrm, or Shivan Dragon, or Force Of Nature, and watch it trample all over your opponent's attempts to block. (Or whimper as they counterspell the damn thing )

Ok, draw your hand: Shivan Wumpus, 3 Simian Spirit guides(remove these from game and add a red mana to your pool.) 2 red lands, and a Brute Force(think giant growth only red.)

First turn: Drop land and if you can burn.

Second turn: drop land, tap both and remove both simian spirit guides = Shivan Wumpus.

Third turn: Land, Attack + Brute Force.